Service & loss before finding forever

Multiple reunifcations finally lead to forever

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Jay: [00:00:00] And she just turned and looked at him and said, you know, if you really want to help become a foster parent.

Rachel: It's the Foster to Forever podcast. Happy stories of nontraditional families born through Foster to Adopt. I'm your host, Rachel Fulginiti.

My guest today is Jay Schindel. And he's here with little Jameson, who you can't see off camera because of anonymity purposes. But, um, he's super, super cute and I wish that we could show him to you. Anyway, um, Jay, welcome and thank you so much for taking the time to speak with us this morning.

Jay: Oh, thank you very much for having us.

Rachel: I was so interested to, get your take, um, and to hear your story, because I know it's been a long [00:01:00] journey. Jay and I were introduced through Extraordinary Families, which is, uh, a foster family agency that we both have used to foster, to adopt our children. First tell us where you are right now, uh, with Jameson.

Jay: Jameson is eight months old. He's been with me since he was five days old, brought him home from the hospital. He's actually my fifth. Child that I've had here, and we are moving toward adoption at this point. So TPR

Rachel: has happened, TPR being, uh, termination of parental rights.

Jay: Yes, that happened in March, uh, two months ago, and at this point, Um, because the adoption process for me is all new, uncharted territory.

The other four children I had were all reunited with family, uh, so this is all new, but I am told that at this point we're simply waiting for paperwork to be processed by the state so we can sign it and be a forever family.

Rachel: That part of it took so long for me [00:02:00] personally, I felt like both times it was waiting for, are you waiting for the, the acknowledgement to come back from Sacramento?

Is that like what you're waiting for? I believe so, yes. Yeah. Yeah. And then they,

Jay: and then we sent it.

Rachel: And then you do the signing, yeah, exactly. And I could not believe how long it would take for a piece of paper to come to go from L. A. to Sacramento and to be signed off there. And then it's basically saying that the child is available for adoption.

Jay: Yeah. So I actually offered to actually drive it up to Sacramento and have them sign and bring it back. It would take less time. Me too. Me too. You know, yeah.

Rachel: Me too. And they were like, yep, nope, that can't happen. Yeah, I know, I know, but it will happen. And I'm, I'm thrilled for you. And, and also keep checking up just FYI, because with ours, like I had to, you have to kind of be a little bit of a squeaky wheel in like the nicest way possible.

Right. Right. [00:03:00] Yeah. Because things get slipped under the cracks and things get pushed. You know, I had like one social worker that had gone on leave. And no one told us, so like, no one kind of knew where our case was. Yeah, this was just with my son who we finalized with last month. And it just went into this limbo where it was like, no one really knew who had the case or what was happening.

So, yeah, you just have to like, follow up, follow up, follow up. Yeah. Yeah.

Jay: Definitely. So. Yeah. Yeah. But it'll happen. You know. Yeah. At this point. It will. Yeah. We're just out enjoying the world. There's something to worry about. Yeah. Exactly. So. So. I always worry a little bit just because. Yeah, until it's final, you just never know, but it's always in the back of my mind.

Something could happen. But, um, but yeah, at this point, I know, yeah,

Rachel: I felt that way too. It's like until I signed that paperwork until I'm there. Yeah. Yeah. I [00:04:00] feel you. So, so let's go back if you, if we can to the very beginning, like what brought you to foster to adopt and like, did you always know you wanted children?

Did you always know you wanted to foster? Like what, what brought you there? Yeah.

Jay: Actually, it's a really weird story. Um, I never intended to do this. I mean, I've always loved kids. I have nieces and nephews. And, you know, I love being with them and taking care of them. I've known them since they were born.

And being around children has always been great. And I always thought about it, but I never got married or anything. So I just kind of Okay, this is just not in the cards for me. Right. And then about, I guess now it's been about six and a half years or so. Um, I was sitting with a friend one day. We were out at the beach and just, you know, chatting.

Um, She's on the board of directors of extraordinary families. Oh, okay. And we're just talking about it. And she was telling me about this fundraiser she was doing [00:05:00] for the agency. And I said, well, what exactly is this agency? What did they do? She explained the fostering adoption process and you know, the support they provide and all that.

And I thought it was just amazing. And I said, you know, this sounds like a great group. And I said, you know, that's amazing. If there's anything I could do to help you with this fundraiser. You know, let me know. I'd be happy to volunteer my time. And, and she just turned, looked at me and said, you know, if you really want to help become a foster parent,

I was like,

Jay: I can't be a foster parent.

Both: You know, you're like me.

Jay: And she said, you know, if you're willing to love a child and care for them, that's all that matters. I know you, you'll be really good at this. I'm going to have someone call you tomorrow. And sure enough, the next morning I get a call. So Brooke says, you want to be a foster parent, right? I'm like, wow, I guess so.

So there was an orientation [00:06:00] starting the next week. I went to that, um, and listen to the whole, you know, that kind of bed. And then they said, you know, it's five weeks of training. There's no cost. I was like, well, I guess nothing to lose. Let's try it and see what happens. Um, and then after that I was kind of, I was still like, you know, kind of apprehensive, you know, and I started all the certification work.

There's so much, you know, it took about six months for me to get all that done. And the whole time, I just kept waiting for them to call and say like, no, no. You know, I, I was, we looked into

Rachel: you and we're, you're not, you're not fit. Exactly. You know,

Jay: all those background checks and the financial checks Yeah.

And your housing and, and you're, you know, everything about it. I thought somewhere in there they're gonna find some reason to say no.

Rachel: Right. And

Jay: so, you know, I, I kept waiting for that and finally I got the call that said, [00:07:00] you're approved. When would you like to go on the list for a child? I was like, wow. Oh my gosh.

How did that happen? Yeah. So, just like that, now all of a sudden I'm an approved foster adoption resource parent, you know?

Rachel: And had you, what had you chosen in terms of like, did you know you wanted a baby? Or what, what was the age range that you were open to?

Jay: Um, I went for the zero for two. Um, mainly because they told me, well, two, two reasons really, one, because I live in a one bedroom.

If they're over two, they need their own bedroom. So I was going to have to move. And I thought, I don't even know how good I'm going to be at this or if, you know, so I didn't want to completely, you know, have to sell this place and buy a whole new one just because, you know, um, but the other reason they said that not a lot of people seem to want infants.

So they have a hard time placing them because they said, you know, nobody wants to [00:08:00] get up, you know, Every hour, all night long. They prefer kids that are already toilet trained and, you know, can tell you what they want. And I'm like, okay, I can deal with that. I love babies. They're great. Put me down for the babies.

So that was really it. Um, you know, and you know, it's worked out great.

Rachel: Were you going into it as just foster care or were you thinking originally foster to adopt?

Jay: Oh, originally I was just going to be foster. I was just going to be that, that home that the kids could come to until they found their forever home.

Um, and my first child, I brought him home. Uh, he was two days old. When I got him and by the end of that first night, I changed my mind. No, I'm going to keep this one forever. I was in love with him already. And I was like, yeah. And actually the first couple of weeks, there were a few [00:09:00] times where they threatened, the county was threatening to move him elsewhere.

And I was just so broken up about it. Like, no, he just got here.

Rachel: Why were they threatening to move him?

Jay: It was just county nonsense. Um, they were, and, uh, EF came through my EF worker was like, no, no, no, I'm gonna take care of this and got it all straightened out. But they were just being goofy. Um, yeah, at that point I was like, maybe I should consider, you know, and, and, um, Um, you know, each child has been different, so you never know when you get them is going to happen.

Right. Some of the children were definitely, you know, this child is definitely being reunified. The parents are, you know, so involved and all. And other times it's like, wow, I might get to keep this one because, you know, the parents, you know. months at a time and, you know, things like that. So you just never know.[00:10:00]

Rachel: Every case is different. Going back just really briefly to when you said EF, extraordinary families jumped in, that speaks to something that I always tell people who come to me asking about. Foster to adopt and getting certified, I always encourage them to go with a nonprofit with a fast foster family agency because really in the process, they would be the only people advocating for you, the resource parents.

So I just want to like point that out to listeners who maybe haven't gone through this process that like there's two ways that you could do it. You could go straight through the county. in your area or you could go through a foster family agency and I personally really recommend going through a foster family agency just so that they can help with this, um, kind of be the, the buffer or the go between or the squeaky wheel for you in between you and the county.

So I think that's, um, important to just acknowledge.

Jay: Oh yeah, [00:11:00] absolutely. Um, yeah, I, I don't think I would have survived without. Yeah. Extraordinary families. Yeah. Just because you don't know the rules. You don't know how things are supposed to go. And the county isn't really forthcoming. They don't really have the time necessarily.

Sometimes unfortunately they don't really care. Right. Um, they just go, this is the rules. And in that, that particular case, they were demanding that I set up visits with the child's parents. Mm hmm. And if I couldn't do that, they'd move him to someone who could. Right. Mm hmm. And I'm like, well, I, and I didn't know back then being in my first placement that it was not my responsibility instead of that.

It was them. I didn't know how to get ahold of the mom. I didn't know who the father even was. We never did find out, but they were making this. You know, completely un, you know, undoable request from me. And it was, I was having a meltdown and yeah, EF stepped [00:12:00] right in and said, no, no, no, that's not the way it works.

We'll take care of it. And they called and actually the case was reassigned to another County worker. It was like, okay, we'll take care of it. You know? So it was right. So, right. And, and yeah, without them, yeah, he probably would have been taken away and I would have been done with the process. Thanks. Yes, exactly, exactly.

And with ccf, they were there watching me the entire time and helping me and

Rachel: Yes. You know, answering questions like whenever you get, like suddenly you get some new piece of information, you can call right away and just be like, what is this? What, what? Help me .

Jay: Yeah, exactly. And, and, yeah. You know, when you first give a child, you know, they.

I know that they covered it in training, but they don't always tell you, you know, like all the calls you're going to get in those first few weeks from so many people. And they're like, you know, it's going to call like, you know, I get a call from a mad assessor. What's a mad assessor? And my extroverted family's worker is like, No, it's Matt, M A T, not [00:13:00] Matt, but, and this is what it is, and this is what they're gonna do.

And I'm like, Oh, okay. I'll call them back then and tell them to come over, you know, but you get all those people showing up and all these calls and you're like, yeah, you have no idea what anything is.

Rachel: It's true. It's true. I found that part really overwhelming, um, both times with both. My children is just how many appointments there are and different.

And that is something that like, maybe you're learning so much that you don't take it in or maybe they don't say it as much. I I don't know. But like, there's just a lot of, and again, for, for listeners who might not know, when you first bring a child home, there's a lot of people that need to oversee. this child and this placement and make sure that and rightfully so make sure that the child is healthy.

Make sure that the child, um, if they need services or not, whether that be physical, mental, behavioral, whatever it is, um, doctors and specialists and assessors and any manner of people. So when you first bring a child home, [00:14:00] just be prepared. There's going to be a lot of appointments, which speaks to another question I have for you.

Was your life set up? So that you could accommodate all of that during the workday, because usually all of that takes place, like, during, uh, you know, the weekday, and, you know, if you're working nine to five or whatever, that might be tough if you're a single parent. Uh, yeah. How did you handle that?

Jay: I was very lucky.

Um, I was working in a studio. I'd actually, was supposed to be done with the project I was working on before the child arrived. Um. And, of course, that didn't happen. The child arrived, I was still at work. Uh, but my boss was really, really generous. And he's like, you take off whatever time you need. We'll get this thing done.

Either way, you know, so like, when the call came to go get the kid, it was like 11 o'clock in the morning. Right. Right. And I'm like, I just got a call. He goes, go, go, go, go, go get your kid. That's amazing. Yeah. And, you know, [00:15:00] then I, you know, I called him the next morning, go, I was up all night with the kid.

They're like, don't come in. Stay home. Wow. Get some sleep. You know, and every time I needed something, uh, you know, it was great. I've been lucky that ever since then all the jobs that I've had have been very, very accommodating.

Rachel: Uh, that's so great. So right now

Jay: I, I, I'm working and, um, I can bring him in with me.

So he comes to work with me and, you know, and, and it's going to be harder, you know, once he's, you know, He's walking and things like that, you know, but he's crawling right now so I can keep him contained. But once he's walking, then, you know, he'll go to daycare and, which will be great for him to, you know, start socializing with other children and, but yeah, it's, it's amazing how accommodating all, you know, my bosses have been since I've been doing this when I explain what I'm doing and why, introduce them to the kids, they're like, [00:16:00] yeah, whatever you need.

Yeah. You

know,

Rachel: I love that. Gives me really helpful. That gives

me hope and faith in, uh, in our community. That's awesome. Yeah. When, when I first brought Izzy home as a baby, my, my daughter, I'm an audiobook narrator and I would just have her in the studio with me. Like, 'cause she would just sleep, you know, every once in a while she'd cry or whatever, and then I'd have to stop.

But it was easy when she was a baby. Not so easy when she became a toddler. . Yeah. So, yeah. So, yeah.

Jay: Yeah, it was funny. I was taking, um. My second placement, uh, when she started walking, it was so cute. I would take her into work with me. I was teaching at the time and I'd go into the classroom and teach at this college and she would start walking around and she'd be looking under every desk and going, computer, let's start unplugging cords.

Oh Lord. So yeah, I was like, okay, it's time to. You know, find her some other care. Right. Yeah. Yeah. They'll let you know when. Right. But it's pretty amusing. So.

Rachel: It becomes [00:17:00] obvious. Yeah. Yeah. So. That's funny. So, so let's just talk for a minute about when you, so you're, and I know there's been a lot of them, but just briefly, I want to give people a sense of like the very real, uh, you know, the reality of the journey.

So you were with, um, your first placements for how long?

Jay: One year,

Rachel: one year during that time, were you doing visits? Like, were you sort of aware that it was coming for, for months before and you had time to prepare or was it, did you know that he or she was going to be reunified or,

Jay: uh, no, actually, uh, it was a really weird situation that, um, father, we never knew who that was.

Okay. And mother was homeless. So getting a hold of her to, for a visit was impossible. Nobody knew where she was. So for many months, um, there were no visits at all. Right. [00:18:00] And, and everybody's just wondering, why? you know, what's going to happen. And it started to look actually like, you know, he might stay with me simply because there was no family.

Um, in fact, we had a court hearing. He was about eight months old and we had a. Uh, there was a court hearing and mother showed up to that only because she'd been arrested the week before.

Rachel: This is very similar to my story with my daughter. Very similar. It

Jay: was, it was crazy. And it was really weird because she went into court and I didn't bring him, but I brought videos so she could see him, you know, it's like, she's like, but you know, she was stunned because when she saw him, he was, just born.

Now he's eight months old, crawling around. She couldn't fathom it was the same child. Um, but she's like, Oh, I really want to get him back. And in court, the judge said, you know, yeah, we'll help you. We'll give you services like that. Court was over. And instead of getting the van to [00:19:00] go back to the holding cell, she turned and walked out an exit and vanished again.

And she just left? She just left. And we're like, Okay. So at that point, I was like, okay, mother's gone in the wind and yeah, of course he's going to stay now. And then. His aunt had been coming down for business. She lived a few hours south and she came once a month for two hours and saw him and she decided to take him.

And so she started going through the certification process and we just kept going, no, no, no. And then eventually she was certified and the judge said, okay, send him there.

Rachel: Just to interject for, for listeners who, who might be just hearing this for the first time, the goal in all foster cases is reunification with birth family.

And that's always the goal until, uh, the termination of parental rights, basically, right? Like until they've decided that they've [00:20:00] ruled out that there's any other family. And the reasons for that, um, We could go into on another show, but, uh, basically it used to be that, uh, the system was taking away kids all the time, separating families with very little effort, um, to allow the, the birth parents to, uh, get it together, to find other family, and it was really affecting communities, and it was affecting, obviously, the, the children and the families, and anyway, they, Um, kind of swung back in the other direction.

So now it's all about reunification. Even like with Jay, if, if he's had this child, really the only parent that this child has ever known for eight months, the goal is still reunification. And that's a really, really difficult part of fostering because basically, even if you're on a foster to adopt tract, and I always try to tell people this, it's still fostering until the It's an [00:21:00] adoption case.

It's you're fostering. You're you're a placeholder. Basically, you're a you're providing a safe place for this child until they can be reunified with someone in their blood family. And, you know, people have feelings about that. There's a lot of feelings on both sides about that. But that is the case. So Um, just to put that out there.

So when that happened, the day that that happened, were you given warning ahead of time like this is going to happen in two weeks or because I've heard stories where it's like, Oh, they call you and they're like, they need to be ready tomorrow. How was it?

Jay: That has happened. But in this case, they were, I gotta admit, they were really, really generous.

Um, it was the court hearing to send him back was two weeks before his first birthday. Um, and I'd had him since I was two days, he was two days old. So the, they actually, the county worker called me and said, we're sending him back, but we're going to let you have them till after his first birthday. So you can [00:22:00] celebrate with them.

Rachel: Oh, that's nice. And I was like,

Jay: Oh, that's just, that's great. You know, I mean, it was, it was heart wrenching, but still, um, so we were able to have a big birthday party for him. We rented a, reserved a park in Beverly Hills and there was like 50 people because he had such a big family here. Um, all the people he had gotten to know, everybody came out, we had this amazing party.

Um, and then everybody came back here for the evening, which is sad knowing it was our last night together. And then the next morning, I had to You know, send them away and I'm going to start crying in a minute thinking about it. Um, but, uh, yeah, it was, it was really nice of them to do that. And even his aunt that was.

He was going to, you know, I invited her to the party, but she couldn't drive up. But, you know, I sent her pictures and all. And so she could see his first birthday. And, you know, we had that special last day and I know you can't see it on the wall, but there's a picture of him in [00:23:00] his little first birthday outfit up there.

And, uh, you know, it was. I was glad they were able to let me do that. Yeah. It's still a happy memory.

Rachel: Are, were you able to stay in touch at all or is that not? Uh, we do, actually

Jay: I send him a birthday present every year and, um, she sends me pictures of him, what he's doing. Yeah. Which will actually, his Birthday's next month.

He's going to be five. And, uh, so cinema, I'm going to figure out what a five year old wants now. Um, but you know, she's, she's really cool with that. And I know she's always promising that she'll send me more pictures and I can come visit, but you know, I think they just get too busy. He's, you know, last year the pictures where, you know, he's with his soccer team and then a couple of travel pictures, he and I guess another family, they all went somewhere.

And he's doing great. [00:24:00] And he's got lots of siblings that they found. Um, yeah. So you know, he's with them and you know, they're all older and like teenagers and so he's, yeah. He's just a happy little boy. He's well taken care of. He's doing well. Yeah. And it makes my heart happy that, you know, that's, you know, yay.

Rachel: How long did it take you to, I mean, I think in a sense, maybe you never get over that. I don't know. Do you, can you speak to that?

Jay: Yeah. You, I, I can liken it to, um. Right when I first started training, my father died. Um, and so I never actually got to tell him I was going to be a foster parent. Um, but going by that, what that grief was, you know, going through all, um, this was much, much worse.

It was, it's just, it's, it's a bigger loss because You know, my dad was 83 and he lived a [00:25:00] wonderful life and, you know, we knew it was coming and all that. But this little boy that's still out there today that you just can't see anymore and you just, it was so hard and it's still hard. But I think like everything else, you slowly, you forget that part and you just remember the happy times.

You remember the memories, um, the things that we did. Pictures keep popping up, you know, on the phone and it's like, here's a memory from four years ago. It's like, Oh, we went to the aquarium. Oh, he loved it, you know? Um, and eventually you move on. Um, right. The thing that happened to me after he left, I mean, it was to me the most devastating thing ever.

And I didn't know how I was going to get through

it. And I was

Jay: really lucky are my EF worker lives five blocks away. We found out very quick, so she had been [00:26:00] over here all the time, you know, with him and playing with us. So even when she wasn't visiting, official visit, she was just, you know, we'd go out for a walk and we'd see her and she's out walking her dog and we'd go for a walk together.

Things like that. So after he left, she started just coming by, just checking on me, you know, like, and trying to get me to cheer up. And after two months, um, she knew exactly what was needed that she called me one day and said, I know you're not ready for another child and I wouldn't ask this, but I'm really in a bind.

I have a little girl, I just need a place for two weeks. She's got court in two weeks. She's going to be going back to her parents and just need for two weeks. I know you'd love her. Can you take her? And I was like, I can't say no, just get me to home, you know, okay, we'll go ahead and do it. So, um, she brought this little girl over, she was eight months old.[00:27:00]

Um, just adorable. So sweet. And she came right to me and, you know, just came in and hugged me and held me and, you know, I was like, okay, I can do this. And then the court hearing in two weeks didn't go the parents away. Um, and she ended up being with me for eight months.

Rachel: But so again, you're thinking that you will maybe adopt this child.

Uh, not this, the second one. Not this one. It was really clear from the beginning that her parents wanted her back. They were so involved. She wasn't, she was here like an hour and they were already

texting me going, okay, okay, we have visits two times a week and we want to see her and how's she doing so far.

Okay. So it was, I was like, okay, they need her back. They, they deserve to be a family. Yeah. Let's, let's work on this. And we all worked hard to make that happen, but the court wasn't quite convinced. So it took, you know. Eight months for that, uh, actually. Approval, right? Yes.

Everything happens very slowly in the court system.[00:28:00]

Right.

Jay: But it was okay. You know, we had a great time. She was just such a joy to have here and, uh, you Aw. And she really, it helped because I stopped thinking about the first one so much. I mean, he was always on my mind. He's still always on my mind, but Sure. You know, he, it's like, okay, I've got this one now to love and care for.

Yeah. Yeah. And she needs my attention. She needs all of my love. Um. You know, let's, you know, I'll, I'll give that to her and, you know, it, it makes the process easier when you move on. It's, you know, yeah, you know, it's like, yeah,

Rachel: right. Like giving service really, it takes you out of your own. Uh, situation and it just, you know, you, you're, you're helping somebody else and that feels good.

And I'll never forget, um, our first aid teacher. The first time that we were getting certified, uh, she said something I never forgot, which was the placement might not be permanent. But what you [00:29:00] do is permanent. And that always just struck me. It's like, I mean, what, what you provided for both of those children, all of the children in your life has just, you, you can't replace that.

That is a lifelong gift that you have given them stability and love and comfort and health and all of this stuff. So that is just unbelievable. It's an unbelievable gift. Yeah, absolutely.

Jay: And, you know, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, And, you know, that's. But I keep telling myself that, you know, this is what we signed up for the right, these children in their time of need and help these families get back together if that's what it is, or, you know, but we're here for them.

Rachel: So tell me about number three. So then how long after, um, She left. Did you, uh, ha bring home number three?

Jay: Oh, that was about two weeks because she left, um, uh, in February of pandemic year, I, and I could already sort of see the writing on the wall. Mm-Hmm. . And by March it was pretty [00:30:00] obvious that things were gonna start shutting down.

We were all gonna be locked in our homes. Mm-Hmm. . And so I called extraordinary families and said, you know, I know I'm gonna be here for many months. Yeah. In my home by myself. Yeah. If there's a child. You know, now's the time before everything shuts down, send them over and the next day. This little five month old boy arrived, you know, um, so yeah, it was, it was really quick and, and they were even like, are you sure?

I'm like, yeah, I absolutely, let's just, you know, cause I knew too, you know, from after getting the second one that, you know, having another child here, you know, it helps you, it helps and it's, you know, heals your heart and, and, you know, so I thought, yeah. Absolutely. So, so yeah, he was, yeah, two weeks later there.

And then how

Rachel: long was he with you?

Jay: He was with me 19 months.

Rachel: Okay. Very long. [00:31:00] And

Jay: I think a lot of it was because of the pandemic that obviously we couldn't have visits with his parents. Um, we tried FaceTime visits and things like that. Um, but with a, you know, six month old kid, they don't really spend a whole lot of time on the camera.

They're like, Oh, who's that? Okay. I know I'm going to go play. So I just like would hold the phone and go like, you want to watch your son play for a while. You can, but that's kind of it. Um, so, and then once things finally did start opening back up again, and we had, um, You know, play dates in the park and, uh, uh, the extraordinary families had the outdoor meeting area.

So we started using that when we could, but, but dad's visits were, you know, off and on. Um, he wasn't very consistent and mom as well. She was just, you know, sometimes she'd show up for a visit. Sometimes she wouldn't. Right. And I think that's why the judge kept, you know, prolonging it, [00:32:00] you know, you've got to be more responsible and you're going to have to prove that you can, uh, you know, take this kid.

And then finally, yeah, it was November of the next year. It was 19 months. And we're like, um, a long time. Okay. This point he had already turned two. I'm like, uh, do I need to move? Cause you know, he needs his own place now. And this and that is, he's staying in the, and the court said, you know, take a couple of months, don't move yet.

Let's, let's have a hearing and decide what's going to happen.

Rachel: Did you have any contact after that with him?

Jay: I did. Yeah. Actually for the first few months, um, cause she was a young mom and, uh, This is really the first time she had been a full time mom, because he was five months old. So now he's, he's over two, he's running, he's climbing on everything.

He's a very active little boy. And she would call or text and just say, you know, I need a break. Can you come [00:33:00] take him for a day? Yeah, so I would drive down, pick them up and take them to the park or the aquarium or something. Um, so for the first few months that happened a lot. Uh huh. So we did get visits.

Uh huh. But that's slowed down. Uh huh. Um, over the, the months and eventually I think they moved. Okay. The, okay, they, the texts have dropped off and contact has dropped off. Um, so yeah, I don't, I don't really know where they're at this point. Right. So I, I hope he's okay. You know, of course you, you know, you hope in your heart everything's fine, but Yeah, I don't really know.

Um, and I. I don't really want to be that person that keeps texting going, is he okay? Is he okay? Cause it's not, I'm not really supposed to, I mean, that's not my responsibility to check on him. Um, so, you know, I'll text him on his birthday, you know, I'll text him to say, you know. Please give him a big hug for me.

[00:34:00] Did

Rachel: that, was that one, and I don't even know if this is a, this is probably a dumb question, but like, was it any easier that time because you'd already been through it or was it even more difficult because you'd been together even longer? Or can you not even compare? It's like, there's no, it's just, they're both hard.

Jay: They, yeah, they're both hard. Uh, you know, that was really hard because yeah, after 19 months, You know, it was like, you know, it was, we were such a pair that, especially because being in the pandemic together and just the two of us, he didn't talk because he never needed to, because he knew exactly how to communicate with me.

You know, I'm hungry, I'm thirsty, you know, go to the fridge and point to exactly what he wanted. So do you want to go down again? So, so he, that was one of the, his issues was like, I couldn't get him to say anything because you know, he didn't realize that other kids actually spoke, you know, cause there's no [00:35:00] other kids around.

Right. Yeah. So, um, but yeah, we just understood each other. We had traveled together, um, went to two weddings together, matching tuxedos. Um, yeah, it was so much fun. We had just the best time. And because mom was so sort of hit and miss as far as visits and do and all that, we're like, we were honestly convinced, even if he did go back that.

She would call after a month and go, yeah, no, I can't handle him. Right. Yeah. And he'd come back. So we were kind of expecting that, you know, starting a family's worker was, you know, the same way. It's like, yep. You're planning to do any traveling now? I'm like, no, I'm going to stay in town for a couple of months, see what happens.

Um, so yeah, so, and she was definitely having a hard time when I would go to pick them up, you know, you could tell it was overworked and just, you know, frazzled and, and dull. Yeah. Yeah. So it, so it was really [00:36:00] hard to see that and Yeah. You know,

Rachel: right. And to worry like, I is, is he okay? Like, yeah. You know, is he safe?

Is he okay? Is I know,

Jay: I know. Yeah. Yeah. You just have no idea. That's really,

Rachel: really difficult. Yeah. Okay. So then after that, there's another baby. When did, when did that other baby come?

Jay: Um, that was about five months later. I decided to take some time just kind of like, you know, after 19 months, I was like, you know, it was actually, well, after several years, cause you know, they all came pretty quickly together.

So I was like, I need some time, I'll do some traveling, just, just regroup. And then, um, I put my name back on the list. And I got this little baby boy who was five days old. Uh, he was premature, but a beautiful little boy. So I went up to the hospital because they wouldn't release him right away, Uhhuh. So I spent two days in the hospital in the Mm-Hmm.

nicu, or what do they call it? The, yep, yep. Yeah. nicu. Yep. That's same with my, and uh, both my kids, they said, you know, the nurse was like, just sit with them. Just, you know, [00:37:00] let 'em get to know you and then feel you, and here you can feed them if you want. And, you know, here, change 'em. Yep. And then after a couple of days, he was big enough that, you know, they said you can take him home.

Um, and he was only here for two months. Uh, and, um, we had a couple of, uh, CFTs, um, conferences with the family. His social worker was amazing from the county. So I wish they were, all the county workers were like her. She was incredible. But, but yeah, she, um, arranged this, this phone call and we got on with our social workers.

We got on with his mom, his aunt, his grandma and another aunt. And the mom kept saying, you know, it's like, you know, she really wanted it back, but she had some issues and he was taken because of drugs and he was going through withdrawal when I had him and she's like, I don't know if I can get my act together.

I really wanted back. I love him so much. I don't [00:38:00] know. And, and this hit her sisters and her mom were both like, you're not going through this alone. We are, in fact, the one aunt that was taking them, it was up in like Palmdale or Lancaster or something like that. The rest of them lived in Arizona or New Mexico, and they were going to move.

Wow. To California. Wow. to that town to be there for her. Wow. Okay. And be there for him. I was like, okay, I feel really good that this little boy is going to a place where he's going to be so loved by this family. He's taken care of. They were just all there. Yep. And the aunt that took him had two little ones herself, so she was already, you know, yeah, I know how to deal with that.

Um, I've got everything and I, and I was like, you know, I felt really good about him going there. And he was, you know, going to be so loved and cared for and, and mom seemed, she was a good person. She just, you know, had to work some stuff out, but I, [00:39:00] you know, she was going to get the support. You know, and even two months, I still fell in love with them and missed him when he went, but uh, you know, it was, you know, it was good.

It was, uh, you know,

Rachel: yeah, that, that was a, an easier one probably just because, yeah, you knew that he was going someplace exactly. Yeah. Where he would be taken care of.

Jay: Yeah. So when you know that they're going good and the same with the second one, when she left, you know, Her parents have been so hands on and we'd become friends over the eight months that, you know, I was like, okay, she's in, you know, they're going to love her.

They're, she's going to drive them crazy because she's such a strong willed little girl. But she's going to be loved and cared for. And that's what you want.

Rachel: And do you have pictures of all of them that you keep? Like, do you have?

Jay: Oh yeah, those are all, yeah, they're all on the walls. They're, they're my kids.

So they'll always be my kids regardless. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It just never changes. That's right.

Rachel: I, I remember when I [00:40:00] was, um, before we certified to foster, to adopt, and we were, we were thinking about it. I had a phone call with a woman who was like a friend of a friend who had done it and she had had a child for nine months and then he was reunified before she adopted her forever family child.

And, and she still referred to him as her son. And I remember being so struck by that. I was like, you still refer to him as your son? And she's like, Oh, he'll always be my son. And, and I said, and this is one of the things that made me like, okay, I'm going to do this. I said, after hearing her whole story, I said like, okay, knowing how hard that was and that he was taken away, would you do it all again knowing that that was going to happen?

And she did not miss a beat. She was like, absolutely. And I was stunned, I remember, at the time, because I didn't know that much about Foster Chudopin. I was like, really? And she was like, absolutely. He was worth it. Like, I would do that for him again in a second. Like, yes. Hundred percent. [00:41:00]

Jay: Yeah. The memories were just, yeah.

Yeah.

Rachel: And how it changed her. Like, it just opened her heart and all of that. So that's, that's an incredible part of it. That's like the hard part, but also a really incredible gift.

Jay: Yeah, the times you're with them so far outweighs The time you're not, when you lose them, they go away. It's, it's, it's not even close.

It's just so I got after the first one left, I got my ring. So I never got married. So I didn't have a wedding ring. So I got this and I had his name engraved on it. And then I've just kept adding each of the kids. Oh my God. That's amazing. All five of them are now on here. So they're always with their, This is my life, you know?

Rachel: That's, that is so beautiful. Yeah. I love that idea. That, that's a gorgeous, that's gorgeous. So, yeah. Um, so tell me, it was, let's paint most of the tattoos. I was gonna do tattoo by my arm, but I was like, yes.

Jay: No, this is right. [00:42:00]

Rachel: That's perfect. That's perfect. Um, so now tell me about Jameson.

Jay: So, well, about a week after the fourth one left, it was, it was the weirdest situation ever, but I remember it so well.

Um. I was actually at school, I was teaching, and I got a call and, uh, from EF, from the placement

Both: person,

Jay: uh, and she said, okay, I know that he just left. But we have a little girl. She's a safe surrender.

Rachel: Wow. I was like, You were like, what?

Jay: I thought those were just only a legend, like unicorns. Right, like

Rachel: unicorns.

Yeah. And for listeners who don't know what that is, safe surrender is when the, the birth mother willingly, um, surrenders the baby. Uh, so she says she can't take care of this child for whatever reason, and she, uh, signs off on it basically. And then they have 15 days, [00:43:00] if I'm correct, at least in California, because my son was also a safe surrender.

Um, 15 days to, uh, change their mind. But then I was warned, and I'm sure you probably were too, that even if the birth mom came back after 15 days, there was still, the court would still consider her request if she wanted the child back. So it wasn't like, oh, 15 days and then it's a totally done deal. It's still, there's that period of time that's where anything could happen.

Jay: Yeah. So, yeah. So, um, Yeah. Thank you. I said yes, of course, you know, right away. Yeah, I'll take this little girl and so they began that process and then the next day, Friday, Joe's calling me saying, okay, nobody knows where the little girl is anymore. We can't find her in the system. She's gone. And eventually they figured out what they think happened is that mom came back [00:44:00] and found somebody had told her that, right?

If she had put the child up for adoption at a private adoption place, she would get paid for it. So, that's what they think what happened. How,

Rachel: how did she get the child? Like, where was the child that she would be able to, like, just take the child? That's crazy. But

Jay: wherever she dropped it off or whatever, she must have gone back there and then found out from there.

Wow. I don't honestly know. Okay. But after the next day, nobody could find her. So, so Jill said, you know, just we'll keep looking all weekend. Yeah. And I'll get back with you on Monday. And you know, but we don't know what happened. And I was just, you know, it's the kind of thing you just like your heart just drops like.

Yeah. So close. So close. You know. Oh God. Monday morning. That's. It was actually finals week at school and I'm giving my first final and Jill calls and she just said, you know, I'm really sorry, but you know, this child has gone wherever it is. I'm really, really sorry. And I [00:45:00] was just, you know, heartbroken. I'm like, okay, let me go back.

And then not an hour later she calls back and she goes, you're not going to believe this. But there's a baby boy safe surrender, I just got a call about, I'm like, are you kidding? Are you teasing me?

Rachel: Yeah, right. Right. Like this isn't a funny joke. Jill. Yeah. Wow.

Jay: You know, and she's like, do you want to go?

Absolutely. Absolutely. Oh my gosh. Yes. Um, and so we spent all that day. Trying to get a hold of the county worker who would have found it. Um, and by the evening Jill was like, I still haven't gotten a hold of this person. I'm calling the night shift. I'm calling everyone. Hang tight. We'll see if this happens.

And the next morning she called and she said, okay, we found the hospital he's at. How soon can you be there? I was like, uh, I can leave now. I could be there in 10 minutes. Um, yeah, go. [00:46:00] Yeah. So I went over there and The hospital staff was actually, um, you know, we've been expecting you since Friday. He's been here that five days.

I'm like, nobody called me. I found out about him Monday, but he was in really good shape. He was premature. And, and, you know, so they give me advice on how to take care of them. It's like two premature kids in a row, uh, five days old. Um, but yeah, it worked out just absolutely perfectly. And. Um, you know, like you said, I knew that, you know, mom had two weeks to come back.

So I was like counting every day going, please, not, not today, not today. Um, but here we are, you know, eight and a half months later and we've never heard from any family at all. Um, and parental rights have been terminated and, you know, it was meant to be, you know, I really feel because, you know, the way that the fourth one left at the same time and right before he was if that one had [00:47:00] stayed then I wouldn't have been available for this and they wouldn't have called me and it just all seemed like it was lining up like somehow the universe was going this is What happens?

Rachel: This is your son. And honestly, this is like a thing about this. This is like one of the biggest reasons why I wanted to do this podcast is because honestly, in every story I hear, there's that meant to be moment. Like there's just that thing that's like, we, this was, we knew this was the one because like this happened, this unicorn thing happened.

Yeah, that's amazing. I love that. So I'm so, so happy for you. A couple more questions and then I'll let you go. Cause I know Jameson is like. ready to have your attention. Um, because there's no parents ever in the picture. And I am, the reason I asked this is because this is the situation with, with Dominic, with my son as well.

Do you ever think about like getting him like a 23 and me or some kind of a, just so you can know, like, [00:48:00] uh, is some kind of like his ethnicity or did you get any of that kind of information or.

Jay: I haven't done it yet, but I, but I do plan to, um, just because, yeah, I don't, you know, I, I don't know anything about him.

I don't know his, his history, his, uh, you know, ethnicity, his anything like that. And sooner or later he's going to ask, you know, at some point he's going to go, well, where did I come from? And, you know, all this, and I would like to know. So I thought, you know, yeah, definitely we'll do it at some point. I just try to see.

you know, where he's from or if there's anything that I can learn from that.

Rachel: I've heard that like for the, the child themselves, it's, it's particularly difficult as a safe surrender because they never get any sort of, or, or, you know, they may never get any sort of idea of, of any kind of, you know, Who their parents might have been their [00:49:00] their biological parents and that even if they got adopted and they have a wonderful, you know, amazing family unit and experience that there's always that little thing of like, but anyone could be my parent like out there in the world and and I guess it's kind of like that in a way of with other situations, but I've just been reading a little bit about, particularly for, for safe surrenders where there's, there's no information, um, that can be difficult.

So yeah, I've, I've had that on my mind and I think like someday I'll do that as well. Like we'll do a 23andMe or something. And yeah. Yeah. Just see. Yeah. Yeah.

Jay: Yeah. And we've been assigned, you know, the, there's that safe surrender unit with the, the psychologist and doctors and everything that are assigned just to the safe surrender children.

And that's right. They've been here twice already. And you know, that's one of the things I've brought up is like, what do I tell him when he's older and all that? Don't worry about it now. We're going to be with you till he's 18. So we're [00:50:00] going to help you through all that. And, and I've gotten a couple of books on, you know, what can you tell your adopted child and things like that.

And, um, reading all those. So. You know, hopefully at that point when that does happen, we'll, you know, I'll know the answers or be able to explain to them the best way I can, you know, that's right.

Rachel: Yeah. I was just talking to another family and they were saying, Hey, look, we all have challenges, right? In life.

There's all, there's things in every single one of our stories that is difficult or challenging or traumatic, you know, whatever it is. So it's like how you meet that, how you deal with it is The thing. Yeah. If you came across other people that were thinking about doing this, taking this journey, would you have, what, what advice would you Give to them or what any kind of words would you share with them about this journey?

Jay: Um, I would say do it Absolutely. It's the best thing ever. Yeah, I mean the way this changes [00:51:00] your life As you care for these kids and love them and give them everything you can it's There's nothing else like it Um, you know, I, I told a training class a couple months ago, I said, you know, I have been all over the world.

I've, I've walked on the great wall of China. I've been inside the pyramids of Egypt. I've walked red carpets with movie stars. I've, you know, I, I, I once had an afternoon with princess Diana. I mean, I've just had all sorts of amazing things happen and yet none of that compares to this. You know, and the only thing I really can say now is I can't wait to take him to all these places and share all that with them, you know, and just say, see how amazing the world is.

Look at this. Um, yes, but yeah, it's just, it's, it's the best thing ever. Just being here. These children and watching them [00:52:00] grow and develop and you know you care for them and love them and this is what life is about.

Rachel: Oh God, they do. That's so gorgeous. You know, that is

so gorgeous. I, you're your karma and your like just your life path, like you're fulfilling something really deep and that is just incredible.

Jay: It is. And, and, and once, you know, if our adoption does go through, hopefully, you know, you know, knock on wood and all is good, you know, after a couple of years, we're going to start doing it again. You can have a little brother or sister, you know, yes. Yes. So, because there will still be more kids. And it's

Rachel: And one last question.

I can't resist. Okay. What would you say to people, because I hear people a lot who say, Oh, but I'm too old to do this. Like, I can't do this now because I'm too old. Like, what would you say to them about that?

Jay: I'm 63.

Rachel: I am. That's all I need to say. Yes.

Jay: That's it. [00:53:00] Um, yes. It's like. I am tired a lot. Right. But what parent isn't.

Right. But yeah, no, you're not too old. If you're able to love a child. That's all that matters. Yes. You know? So I, I don't know what it's going to be like when, you know, he graduates high school and I'm in a walker or whatever, but, but for now, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. You know, and somehow you pull up the energy and just keep going.

You do. I think they

Rachel: keep you young. I mean, I'm an older mom too and I'm like, they, they keep me young, you know, keep me on my feet. Yes.

Jay: And all afternoon we're playing with little musical toys, you know, learning the alphabet and I'm like, yeah, yeah, this is. Yeah, this is fun. It's, you know, yeah, definitely. I can't wait until he's old enough for Hot Wheels.

Rachel: Oh, yeah, I know. There's so many fun things at every stage. There's like new fun things. Jay, thank you so much for your time. Very welcome. And for your service to I mean, [00:54:00] honestly, like, it's really amazing. You're amazing. And I'm so glad I know you. And just, I'm going to, we're going to leave the recording, but just stick around for a minute and, um, thank you.

It's been such a great time to talk to you.

Jay: Thank you everyone for listening.

Rachel: This has been the Foster to Forever podcast. Happy stories of non traditional families born through Foster to Adopt. Produced by Aquarius Rising. Edited by Jason Sarubbi at Split Rock Studios. Original music composed by Joe Fulginiti.

For more information or to stay in touch, visit FromFosterToForever. com. That's FromFosterTheNumberTwoForever. com. And stay connected with us on Instagram at FosterToForeverPodcast. That's FosterTheNumberTwoForeverPodcast. We'll see you next [00:55:00] time.