Transracial adoption & co-parenting through divorce

Transracial adoption; co-parenting through divorce

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Tiger: [00:00:00] Yeah, one day there's just the crib in the, in the house that, you know, that we, that we put there and the, and you know, in the, in the drawers and some clothes and all that stuff. And then the next day, boom, there she is.

Amy: You're not having baby showers, you know, as a female, you're not seeing your body change and everybody going, how much longer?

Oh, enjoy it while you can and, and keep sleeping or, you know, what all, all of that ramp up.

Rachel: Yeah.

Amy: Doesn't exist.

Rachel: It's the Foster to Forever podcast. Happy stories of non traditional families born through Foster to Adopt. I'm your host, Rachel Fulginiti .

Hello and welcome to the podcast, Amy and Tiger. So happy to have you here.

Tiger: Happy to be here.

Rachel: Thank you. [00:01:00] So first, tell our listeners a little bit about how you came to foster to adopt and how many children you have and, uh, what, what that was all like.

Amy: Okay. So we, we met old and we're both living in Los Angeles at the time and madly in love and realized we wanted kids, but that At the end of the day, it didn't really matter to us how we got them biologically.

And I'd had a lot of health issues when I was a younger woman. And so I was a little fearful, um, too, of carrying. And so, um, we just kind of dove in and took PS map classes through, um, LA County, which, you know, in hindsight is its own crazy story, of course. And, um, Can you tell the listeners what that is, if they don't know?

I'm so sorry. P. S. Map is basically a required. I'm training and ours was six weeks in eight hour days and [00:02:00] we took a day long classes every Saturday that you're required to have before you can be a licensed foster parent. And so the process is, is very thorough. You do a background check, you have to do fingerprinting and all of that.

And, um. so much. And I think it just kind of weeds weeds people out a little bit like are you really even interested in this or was this Just a passing fancy, right? So, um, we we did that and we currently Have a effervescently beautiful vibrant nine year old third grader almost fourth grader as of two days from now and um, we We had a really traumatic process, but um, are super happy with the results.

Rachel: How old was she when you, when you began fostering her?

Tiger: She was just over one.

Rachel: Did you just decide like right away, like we're not going to have biological children, let's do foster to adopt? Or did you like [00:03:00] kind of look at other options and then land on foster to adopt?

Tiger: We briefly had done a fertility treatment.

As Amy said, we were kind of, we're kind of old.

Amy: Yeah. And when it came down to adoption,

Tiger: adoption, foster, adopt specifically was the, was the only choice for us both emotionally and I guess, uh,

Amy: fiscally.

Tiger: Well, I

Amy: think, um, I'll, I'll add a little to this. I was working at a time for a fabulous company and there is a project manager who had adopted two children.

Um, and she did it through an agency and, um, because she was a project manager, she had literally this four inch binder that she's like, here, Amy. And, um, it basically just outlined a whole bunch of paths and different processes and things they had to do through their process.

Rachel: Wow. Um,

Amy: and after looking at that, um, We were in a place where we were still doing fertility, but it wasn't to the point [00:04:00] where it was getting super expensive, but that would be the next step.

And I'm like, why would we pay 30, 000 for this when there's so many kids in the world? And it just aligned with our philosophical values. Yes. And, um, and that's why we went that route. And then why we went directly through LA County, I think

Tiger: we never considered it.

Amy: We wouldn't, we wouldn't do it that same way now.

Uh huh. We have other friends. Yeah. We have other friends that adopted, but they at least went through a nonprofit agency or had had a better guide per se. And we are just really going independent.

Rachel: Right. For for listeners who might not be familiar. Um, there's basically two ways you can do it, as Amy just said.

So you can go directly through the county to get certified and move through that process. Or you can use a foster family agency. And what happens is, in a way, it creates more quote unquote work for you because you have double social workers, right? So you have visits from [00:05:00] your foster foster family agency, social worker and from the county.

However, on the positive side, when you have an agency with you, they're really the only people that are in the equation for you. Like they're, they're, they're there to advocate, um, for you. for you and obviously the child. Whereas if you go straight through the county, you're really, there's nobody there really for you.

Is that, was that your experience?

Tiger: For sure. We, uh, actually, uh, you know, we had, we had, we had gone through the PS map classes and we're basically in the, in the, uh, the foster system with directly through the county. And then we decided that, uh, maybe we should go through an agency and we actually, Started the process with an agency when the county all of a sudden, uh approached us with our first foster to adopt

Rachel: I forgot about that.

Yeah Okay, so that so then you're just like we're

Tiger: yeah, we were we were like on this other track and then all of a sudden It was like, okay. Well Uh, let's go ahead and go

Amy: [00:06:00] simply because you're blind and we didn't even know what was happening, you know, right with the county at all for

Tiger: sure advocacy. Sorry.

In terms of advocacy, advocacy, uh, you know, through the county for foster families. There's no, there's nobody there that fits that. job.

Amy: Right. Exactly. In fact, I mean, the mission statement of DCFS is reunification with family and, and that's not us, you know, or that wasn't us during the process. And so, um, from friends who did it the recommended way in hindsight that you did, Rachel, um, our friends that did it that have an added kind of level of blessing where They have, they still have a resource now where they're almost like extended family.

Yes. And we have some dear friends that, um, adopted and have had, the birth mother has had two other children since the child they initially adopted. And they've been the [00:07:00] first stop to see if they are interested in expanding their family. And they did once, but the second time they're just like, We're also old and we're at our capacity and we want to give the best for this life for this child, but they were able to work with another family in that same non profit.

So they will still have that connection and that relationship over the years for the children, right?

Rachel: That's amazing. I hadn't thought of that. Yeah. Question to you, if you do go through the county, if you've adopted a child and then it turns out that they have a biological. Another one, the birth mom.

Would you still be the first stop? Uh, like the,

Amy: would they inquire to you? We don't have our license anymore, but we also had a really unique situation that I'm sure we're going to get to, but I'm where Zarina has a stepbrother that was also in the system that was adopted by a [00:08:00] biological family, not adopted, that was in the home of a biological family member And she's still a licensed person as far as we know.

And I would assume because of that, that that would likely be the first stop, but

Rachel: we don't know. So she was just a little over a year when you brought her home. What were those early days like for you? Because something that I haven't talked a whole lot about with, with people, but something that certainly was my experience is that it is the strangest thing to.

One day not have a baby and all of the sudden you have a baby and it's it's really Yeah, anyway, I I want to hear what your experience of of that was

Tiger: yeah one day there's just the crib in the in the house that you know that we that we put there and the and And you know in the in the drawers and some clothes and all that stuff And and then the next day Boom, there she is zipping, you know, zipping through the house, [00:09:00] uh, at full steam, uh, uh, just almost like, you know, You know dropped from heaven, but uh you know, just uh, you know, just kind of like bing she's there magically out of this out of out of this, you know, kind of Magic chaos that kind of did it and all of a sudden bing there.

She is yeah It would you know you you uh, it's a it's a different kind of adjustment than when you've got nine months on the run up to getting Yeah, absolutely. Yeah,

Amy: I'll, I'll, I'll expand on that too. Um, you know, we, through the training, you know, mentally you kind of know, you know, what the path will be.

You might get a call in the middle of the night, you know, et cetera. But, um, it, you, you, You're not having baby showers, you know, as a female, you're not seeing your body change and everybody going, how much longer, Oh, enjoy it while you can and, and keep sleeping or, you know, what, all, all of that ramp up

doesn't

exist.[00:10:00]

Um, and so it, it is, I literally remember after we picked up Serena, which was literally a 15 minute meeting, we're driving away and. We made a comment to each other of like, Oh my gosh, I feel like we just stole a child. Like, I mean, just like all of a sudden there's this little bug in the back, you know, smiling away and just chatting and I mean, you know, going and it was just very.

Very surreal.

Rachel: Yeah, it really is. And thank you for bringing up. I just want to touch on that for a moment. Another thing we haven't talked about yet on this show is that, um, that feeling of otherness, right? Like I remember being so, um, just feeling really, you know, Othered without them meaning to, but anytime I would be at a playground or I would be at like a birthday party or anything, and they're all talking about, Oh, what was your birth like?

What was your birthday? You know, all of the stuff that, that new moms talk about that I [00:11:00] just, I couldn't participate in those conversations and that, um, definitely like I felt some grief around that, you know, and they'd be like, well, you, you know, you've experienced birth, so you, you can do anything, you know?

And I was like, Yeah. No, actually I haven't, but I still feel like, you know, anyway, I, and I just wanted to acknowledge that.

Tiger: And also, you know, we, we missed the first year of, of, of her, of her life. So that, that kind of, you know, it's, you know, and we, you know, honestly, we don't, we don't know a whole lot. Be about other than what we were able to to glean, uh, during the adoption process And so, uh, and so, you know, and so there's like, you know All those sleepless nights whatever and we're like, I mean, she kind of went to bed pretty easy.

You know what i'm saying?

Rachel: Um, what is her ethnicity is it the same as yours or is it different? Yeah, she's black So that that also is another thing. I have my son is [00:12:00] African American. And so then there's also that other layer to have, like, people maybe not thinking that this is your child or have you experienced any of that kind of stuff?

Tiger: Yeah. Uh, la la Yeah, for sure. Lady. Uh, uh, I remember once , I was in a, uh, coffee bean with, with her. She's still pre preverbal and I know, and, um, in her stroller. And I, and this lady, you know, I'm very, you know, whatever. Nice, nice white lady comes over and, and then she says, so what country is she from? And I said, watt.

Oh, I thought she was African. I was like, yeah, I wonder why you, I wonder why you would think that, you know, that, that kind of thing. Like all this, like, uh, she, you know, people do kind of automatically assume that she, that we adopted her from another country. Right. Cause it's obvious from the, from the drop that she must be adopted if we're both there.

Um, so, uh,

Amy: it's, it is, it's, I like how you said it, the other part, it is very [00:13:00] other, um, And I, that's only going to continue going on, obviously, um, and she's, she's aware of it, you know, too, but it's, it is very strange if, you know, we're walking down the street and she gets ahead of me or behind me, I will sometimes see people looking around to see who's, who's with this child as someone

watching her.

Um,

in a protective way, but for the most part, but it's, you know, it's just, that's an oddity too. It's like, Oh, and so I often just very purposely, I'm just very close to her anyway. And vigilant obviously, but that's a little, that's a little odd. And especially like we, um, we changed schools, um, during COVID too, cause we did a physical move and, um, Even just going to school the first dozen times, you know, meeting new faces like, Oh, or even kids.

It's like, here's Zarina's mom. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We're very [00:14:00] open about really everything. Right. Just because it's necessary. We feel like,

Rachel: right. And, and how does she, does she have feelings about it? Has she expressed anything about it or

Tiger: she thinks the whole, uh, stereotype of, of a Karen is hilarious. And, uh, and, and, and really likes to address it with us and, uh, and, and, and about, and about white people who behave that way.

Um, and so, cause she doesn't quite, she, she, uh, she, she finds it very humorous. Um, and, and she, uh, you know, Occasionally, you know, occasionally, there'll be, uh, I don't know, you know, when George Floyd, uh, when when when the George Floyd situation went down and, uh, and, and that, and that coincided with our move to, uh, everything, you know, you, you find yourself having to address these subjects from, from just an informed outsider as, as best you can to, you know.

[00:15:00] Your child who is, who is going to, you know, is, is getting this at the same time. And around the same time, you know, Kamala Harris becomes vice president. So that's also a big thing for our, for our girl and being able to, to buttress that. And, um, so, but you know, she, the mixed signal she gets from media, from other people about, about our differences, uh, both visually and culturally, um, she finds interesting and often very funny.

And, and has usually has lots of questions that I, that I vainly try to answer. And, and, and Amy probably does a much better job.

Rachel: Yeah. Yeah. Have you been able to, um, like to, are there any ways that you can support her? And I ask this as a parent myself, like all the time, support her in like, um, you know, having friends of all different races or like, you know, especially obviously African American, like for me, it was really important to bring him to a barbershop, like, you know, He's gotta go to [00:16:00] a black barbershop.

Tiger: One of the, one of the things, uh, Z, um, uh, likes to point out, uh, is, is I'm, I'm the one who usually does her hair and, uh, and takes care of it, uh, on mostly a daily basis. And so she, you know, she likes to point out, you have, your hair is nothing like mine. You don't understand how this feels. I'm like, I'm sorry.

Right. But yeah, uh, when it is time for her to go to the hairdresser, we obviously always make sure it's a black, black hairdresser or black hair, black hair shop. And, you know, We moved to a place that is a bit wider than Where we lived in Los Angeles. So, you know, sometimes I'm the obnoxious adopted parent where, when I see another African American child, I was like, don't you want to go look friend, look, there's a friend right over there.

And

Amy: yeah, I think keeping her in touch with their culture is critical. And so any events that we have, we're not that, you know, we're about. 70 miles from LA now. And so it's not a huge [00:17:00] John and we go back and visit our friends pretty regularly, but the diversity is huge. And just really talking about our differences is a lot of the way that we do it on our daily basis.

Rachel: And

Amy: then honestly, I think just answering everything, even if it's a hard question, In the same way that I would answer it if it was tiger asking me, maybe with a little less swearing, but very authentically and just so she knows she's going to get the truth if she's asking us something and if we don't know, then, you know, we figure it out together.

But, um. That was a big part of our philosophy when, when we were adopting and our commitment. And it was a big part of the training too, is that the odds of you getting a, getting a child that is of a different race than yourself matters and having those conversations actually, actually with your, [00:18:00] um, extended family.

Like I knew my immediate family would be like all on board, but you know, everybody's got that uncle, you know, or there's somebody out there that you're like, um, you know, the racist might have a problem with this one and just making the boundaries.

Rachel: So how did you handle that? Like here, did you handle it directly or did you just like, okay, we'll wait and see if something comes up and then we'll say something or

Amy: I think, um, I think it's more of that person wasn't much in our lives anyway.

Rachel: And

Amy: so it was easy to continue that distancing except for like a very big family reunion. And then I was just glued to her if he was around, you know, and so, um, and correcting and seeing her. I think Tiger's beautiful at this, but if somebody misspeaks or, you know, even says something in kind of the wrong way, he'll do a very polite call out, you know, just so she knows to stand up and [00:19:00] protect herself too.

Yeah. That was kind of vague, but, um, yeah.

Rachel: Yeah, no, I mean, this stuff, it's not like easy to talk about, but I think it's really important, especially like as adoptive parents, just, just making sure that, that you're aware of like what you're taking on. And I have a, a very good, one of my best friends is black.

And she said to me like, honey, you're adopting a black boy. Like you know what this means, right? She's like, you, you, this is a really big responsibility. And she's like, and I'm going to be in your life for that little boy, like no matter what. And you. Better keep me around and like, you know, God bless her.

My friend Robin. Um, but yeah, it's just, it's, it's something that needs to be talked about more. And I, I do agree that they did discuss this in training and that's a great thing.

Tiger: My favorite thing would always be if I would, if I had Zarina with me at like a target or something and I'm in the textured hair section.

Uh, the, I, I, uh, I, I must have just been a magnet for nice women wanting to come up to me and help me with [00:20:00] this situation in the textured hair section and, and, uh, they take one look at me and go, oh, poor dear, come here, come here, come here, come

Rachel: here, come here. Let me help you out. No, this, over here,

Tiger: you need to

Rachel: help.

Uh, the other thing I'll just say, and then I want to get back to like the story, story part of it for you guys, um, is that my eyes have been opened to tokenism in a way that I. I kind of knew about before, of course I knew about it, but I didn't really, and I'll just be completely honest, like I didn't really understand how little representation there is for, for instance, in just media.

I mean, I used to think like, Oh, like this show is diverse and this is great. Like even with my, my daughter, who's half Filipina. I would be like, Oh, this is a good diverse show. And you know, now like with my son, just something, I'm just like, there's one black person on this. Like, that's not okay. It's interesting.

The levels that awaken.

Tiger: Yeah. I mean, you know, I mean, you know, considered myself, you know, fairly, fairly [00:21:00] woke. And uh, you're just, I just seeing, seeing the world through the eyes of my daughter and just, you know, even the stuff about the little mermaid. Her eyes, I mean, she's not even a really big, huge Little Mermaid fan, but she, you know, just the, just when she saw the trailer, she just, her eyes just kind of gleaned up and she's, and she, and she like, and you know, kind of turns to me and smiles at me and I'm like, I know.

That's awesome. And, uh, Kamala Harris and, and, and, and, and the type of, and, and getting that representation, you know, uh, now, now I see, you know. I guess now I see it as the only thing I can say other than, other than I, I was, I, I've been told it all my life and, and it, it, you know, it took me that long to figure it out because of my daughter.

Yeah, no, totally.

Rachel: Because when it becomes personal, it's such a different experience than just, you know, thinking about it cerebrally, you know.

Amy: I kind of want to add, yeah, I just have a, [00:22:00] I mean, I agree with everything you guys are saying, but it's like, I also just had a really interesting experience where I was just, Um, I also always felt like I was a pretty open minded person.

Um, but just so shocked by the depth of my real privilege and the perception of that, that I, I actually found like I was just kind of more just shutting up. And just listening, which is, um, not my typical personality at all, right. And, um, just for, for just a learning, but also just so, um, fearful of offending, you know,

Rachel: totally.

Yeah, I know. I, I hate to admit that too. And I feel that way and I'm trying to like, just get over it, get over it, move through it for sure.

Tiger: Yeah. Yeah. We, um, Uh, we've been involved in, um, uh, uh, a school. Our school district is, is Adopt, has adopted a d uh, a diversity in education, [00:23:00] um, initiative. Mm-Hmm. . Mm-Hmm.

And, uh, and while our district is a, a blue district for the most

Rachel: part. Mm-Hmm. ,

Tiger: uh, it, there, there, I mean, it, it used to be Darl EISs District. So there's still this, um, this cont this contingent. And so a, a very. Let's just, let's just say evangelical church, uh, send out a bunch of minions to this listen and learn session, sessions that they were having, send like 300 people out to sit at the tables and say, and almost to a T, every single one of them sat there and said, there's no more racism in America.

And I, Amy, Amy, and not wanting

Amy: to talk about gender, I mean, trans, trans,

Tiger: they wanted to, they wanted to talk about trans issues. Um, and, uh, which had nothing to do with the diversity initiative at the time.

Rachel: And,

Tiger: um, and so, uh, and, and Amy can speak better to it, because she was there and I wasn't. But, you know, in, in the conversation in my mind, I, I am like, of course you think that [00:24:00] because you, uh, because you are white, And you have never experienced it.

Rachel: That's right.

Tiger: Discrimination based on your skin color. So therefore, you don't, you have not, as, as, as, again, as woke as I am, and until I'm in my 40s, do I get to actually feel it and see it and understand it from, from even, And I'm still, you know, one, one removed from it. So it's not sure I'm not, I'm not saying that, but when people say things like that, I, I, I, I can't sit still anymore.

I can't, I can't, uh, because it's, that's actually the most racist thing you could possibly say.

Amy: And honestly, tiger, that's one of your best traits is you are such a loud ally that it, it serves well.

Rachel: Being willing to open your mouth, even if you make a mistake, you know, and on that note, have you guys heard of the there's a a transracial adoption camp?

Our agency, [00:25:00] Extraordinary Families, told us about it. We weren't able to do it this year because we're moving, but next year we really want to do it, and it's for the whole family, and it's Just for one week solid, it's all transracial adoption families, and they just do workshops and uh, talk through things and the kids do their own track and then the parents do their own track.

And uh, you know, obviously the kids get to meet other kids who have, you know, parents of different families. Yeah. It's I, I will, I'll link to the, to that in the show notes as well, because I think it, that just sounds incredible. It sounds like a great opportunity. Yeah. Yeah. That sounds great. That sounds

Amy: amazing.

Rachel: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So getting back to the story of you guys. So you bring her home. She's one. Uh, you're adjusting. Uh, did you have visits with, with any of the biological family? What was that like? Yeah.

Amy: Yeah, after, um, after we're with Z for about two after Z was with in our home for about two [00:26:00] weeks, um, we started one hour visitations with the birth mother every two weeks.

And that was pretty much the, the cadence that we were led to, um, think it was going to happen there through this. Our purpose in fostering was foster to adopt, right? Especially through the county. There's like, there's no promises. You know, that's right. That's right.

Tiger: Termination was the next court date. It had been set for the next court date.

So that was the track. That was the track. We were We were on.

Rachel: Right. So the listeners, just so they, they understand. So every case is a foster case until it's an adoption case and it's not an adoption case until the parental rights have been terminated. So when you came in, the next step was already going to be TPR came to

Tiger: us in late April and and mid June was the next court was next court date and TPR termination of parental rights was on the docket for that.

Okay.

Rachel: Okay. Thank you. Okay. [00:27:00] And so how did that play out? But they were still doing visits. Did they want, were they, they didn't, they weren't confident in the woman's ability to

Tiger: Right. Well, uh, well, she, well, there, there had been a prior, uh, a prior child had, had been removed and, and, uh Missing

Amy: the system already.

Right.

Tiger: Much, much of what we, which we knew nothing about, it's not our story. And, and, uh, and so, but around, but so, so services had not been, uh, given to the bio mom and, and this is the track it was on a family member, uh, that, that had previous that had been offered Z, uh, at, at the time and passed, came back once, once they learned adoption was, was, uh, was going to happen and

Rachel: that's,

Tiger: and that's what derailed.

Uh, the parental rights termination for about two years.

Rachel: Okay. So she had already been with another foster family. [00:28:00]

Amy: Yeah, but what it was an illegal placement. Illegal, um, from the system, the system's term, not ours. Um, so and so that's why they were

Tiger: trying to,

Amy: it was an auntie. Okay. Okay. And so, uh, a elderly, um, family friend and Mm-Hmm?

The Serena definitely was very, very loved her first year. Mm-Hmm. , I'm sure just her buoyancy was, is phenomenal.

Rachel: Mm-Hmm. .

Amy: But she lived in a home with a very kind lady. We met her a few times.

Rachel: Mm-Hmm.

Amy: who had, basically, she was either in. The I can't remember what the wheelie thing's called. What's that bumper?

Can you put a kid in? Okay She's either in that or in a crib or in a high chair or in a car seat But she was never left to like move on her own. So we um, there were some concerns on mobility but mentally and her spirituality Were just very vibrant.

Rachel: Okay. Okay and And but, but it was illegal in the sense that she wasn't certified [00:29:00] to be a foster family.

Uh,

Tiger: again, we're not entirely sure what the why they had to remove her quickly.

Rachel: I see. Okay.

Tiger: From her first placement. But no, I

Amy: remember time

Tiger: they told. Okay.

Amy: She, she was not a certified, um, foster parent. And so she was taking care of the child. And it sounds like she was starting to kind of starting to the process, but not really, but had been, Zarina had been living in her home, you know, ever since, you know, ever since the onset.

Rachel: Gotcha. And so then, so you start visits, TPR happens. And then the, the aunt comes back and says, wait a minute, I want

Tiger: CPR

Rachel: didn't happen

Tiger: at that time. It, at that time, it didn't happen. It got, it then basically got delayed. That's

Amy: what you said. Yep. Sorry. Yep.

Tiger: And,

Amy: and that was really the twist in the story is once the biological, um, And came into the picture.

Um, [00:30:00] that immediately became the focus of DCFS is the right place for her to go, you know, for Z to go. Um, there's already a half sibling in there. Um, she's a well known, you know, foster parent. It was a no brainer, but, but it basically went from the start of the story to us having a 99 percent chance of adopting Z to, to, Within a year and a half, it being 99 percent chance that we were going to lose her.

So it was just a very, um, just from our very small perspective in this whole story, it was really, um, pretty traumatic and sad. Um, and our philosophy, I, I was so proud of, which was. We, we wanted Zarina to, to know any biological family members. So we really wanted her to, to have relationships with them. And so we, we all the way through to the end had extended hands and, um, to the family.

And, um, [00:31:00] uh, once the, once DCF kind of shifted their focus onto the ant, um, it was, clear to us that there are a couple other weird things going on, um, in the home that were inconsistent with what we knew the state knew. And, um, Tiger, why don't you take over a little bit at

Tiger: this point? Well, yeah, no, no, no, just, just there, there were some things being reported back to us by Z.

Uh, and, and, and we reported them to. DCFS.

Rachel: Okay. And

Tiger: so that, that started getting, uh.

Rachel: Do you mean like things that were physically harming her or just.

Tiger: No, uh. You don't have to

Rachel: be specific. No, it's just things,

Tiger: things that. Another

Amy: person in the home. By other people that wasn't supposed to be in the home.

Okay. Okay.

Tiger: And. Uh, and, and, uh, a type and that person apparently having [00:32:00] disciplinary control and, uh, Yeah, there was

Amy: a physical, there were a couple of physicals. Yeah, yeah, there was.

Tiger: Um, so, so we poured those things back and then, uh, and then when it came down to DCFS wanting to remove, remove Z, Uh, to, to place with the, with the, with the Bio Ant, then, uh, uh, we were able to convene a hearing, uh, at, uh, at DCFS, and eventually over, uh, much, uh, we had the hearing and, and much agonizing later, agonizing, uh, like a month later.

Two months later almost, uh, we finally got word that DCFS, uh, had changed and, and, and was not going to place Z with, uh, Anthony Moore and adoption process would begin again. And, uh,

Amy: How?

Tiger: And how

Amy: did that happen? I know you just, you just hit, you just flew by a critical plot point.

Tiger: Well, yeah, I'm just being vague.

Amy: I know you're fine. It's just like, I want to, I want to homage here. We, we got to a [00:33:00] point where we felt that. Z was not being served. And believe me, there was a lot of thought. To on, are we the right choice? You know,

Rachel: she's,

Amy: she's sitting here now and, um, you know, the aunt owned a home and she seemed to have her stuff together, but it was, it was the misrepresentation and the lies of what we knew was going on the home to what was actually being shared that just immediately we're like, it was

Tiger: being delayed instead of there's no reason for being three day notice right away.

Rachel: Gotcha. There's flags

Amy: and yeah. Okay. And then there's no reason for dishonesty. So we ended up getting a lawyer and the lawyer was simply because we were just at a loss of like a we didn't go through, you know, and have representation or allies on our side. Um, and again, back to the motto of D. C. F. S.

Reunification with family. Right. [00:34:00] Of which we were not, even though we, she had now been in our home longer than she'd ever been anywhere. Right. We found a lawyer who is just fantastic. Beatrice fun and F U N G. And she has, she's based out of LA and she partnered with us. Um, and just was really. So compassionate.

And, and also we're, we're pretty practical people. And so there are a lot of things like, we know this person's living in the house because he's caring for the daughter for Z and what's, you know, why are we hiding this? She, she just was able to educate us on this is very likely going to happen. Um, you're going to get a notice saying that the removal of the, of the child from our home and we'll get like a five day notice.

We did get that and tiger was actually out on an acting gig out of the country when it came. Wow. And um, B, [00:35:00] B just said, all right. And she's like, um, she ended up, she just has a very unique mind. And she then told me that she's like, this is the best thing that could have happened to us. Because now what it's done is it put the onus on The state to now prove why we were not the best place instead of where they were before, which is this is the best place.

They kind of took their own power away. So we filed a grievance, she did. We signed everything. She filed a grievance and basically got the whole thing audited. And we went to, through that process, which was also surreal and, um, they just listened to everything and this, you know, the social workers were there and that was there and we were in the room and they just listened to all of it.

And. Um, with love and compassion, B, [00:36:00] B just blew him out of the water.

Rachel: Wow.

Amy: And, um, that's when everything shifted and very quickly, um, I think within three months, our adoption was finalized.

Rachel: Wow. And it was insane. She, Z had remained with you the entire time. Like she wasn't removed or was she removed? Okay.

Amy: Yes and no. At the end, the last, the last four, three, three to four months with her, Mm hmm. Um, the aunt had 56 hour visitations. So Z would leave our home at, you know, so you would leave our home at noon on, um, Fridays and we would get her back late afternoon on Sundays and, um, it was, it was crazy. Like just the things that go through your mind too, of like, You know, I wanted to almost like have a tracker just to know she was okay.

Cause you don't know where she is or what she's doing. And you just have to, you know, either rely on faith or just, you know, block it [00:37:00] out until your kids back home again. Um, but she, for the most part, um, was very loved, but I look back on that and just how confusing that must have been for her. Yeah. Just the culture shock alone, you know, and um, but yeah, it's built built her resilience and she's she's just beautiful.

So

Rachel: absolutely. So you, so, okay. So it was finalized, um, within three months after that, which is incredible. Um, the

Tiger: adoption, the adoption was a year later, the adoption papers a year later.

Rachel: Oh, okay.

Tiger: But, but it was about three months when the court finally. When we went back to court after the, after the hearing and, uh, and the, and the judge, uh, uh, uh, granted, uh, uh, parental rights, uh, uh, terminate parental rights.

Sorry.

Rachel: Got it. Got it. Got it. And then Sorry. Thank you, Tiger. Then there's no more [00:38:00] visitations required. Correct. Did you stay in touch with the family, the biological family or

Amy: no? We didn't, but I want to speak to that because that was really tough for us. Cause that's the exact opposite of what we went in as and what we're building.

And where we landed was we just, we were just so, um, mad. At the end of just all the lies to, um, and you know, she, she's, she was smart and just trying to do what she thought was best at, at, at worst, maybe, maybe not, but where we landed was we are not going to do outreach. But if anybody reaches out to us wanting to connect with her, we will absolutely always be open to revisiting and discussing that together to then decide what's best for Z.

Rachel: Okay.

Amy: And it's been how many years now? Five? Five years and nobody's called. No. [00:39:00] No, no, no.

Tiger: Eight years. Oh, well, uh, six years, sorry, six years since the adoption was finalized since, since

Amy: Tiger do some math for me. Just kidding. He's really bad.

Yeah, it's been a while. And we, we, we do have, um, the, the birth mother and I for some time had, um, been emailing in the early part. And so when. As far as I know, that's still a valid way to approach.

Rachel: Do you ever feel compelled to reach out to them or not really? You do. I do. And the birth to the birth mom.

Amy: Um, but sometimes to the aunt too, because, because of the half brother, right?

Rachel: That's, that's an ache. And the half brother is, did, did he remain in the biological? Family.

Tiger: Yes.

Rachel: Okay. As far as we know. Okay. And how old what's the age difference between the two? Five years [00:40:00] older. Okay. And so you feel that, uh, you, you do feel that it's on your heart sometimes to reestablish connection.

However, you haven't yet. Can you are you willing to speak to that?

Amy: I, um, I feel and tiger. We haven't spoken about this recently. It's probably been a year or so since we've talked about this. But for me, it's a, um, I think it's wrong. I think that what what is happening now is wrong. But there has been Okay.

Um, a lot of change in Z's life and also just some diagnoses that she's just, she's just got a lot going on. Yep. That adding that element to it and honestly even opening our door to the aunt because last we knew that that's the house that she was, he was in.

Rachel: Uh huh.

Amy: Um, is not exciting. It isn't a great idea, but I feel like I feel like it's something I [00:41:00] want to explore in the next year to for sure.

Um, if tiger and I are aligned.

Rachel: And how do you feel about it, tiger?

Tiger: Um, well, during during the prop, the, the, the prop, the adoption process, uh, the court I can't remember if it was an order or a suggestion, uh, said to con and I'm gonna, I don't remember the name of the organization. It was called the consortium something.

So

Amy: yeah, the consortium. Yeah,

Tiger: it's

Amy: like a mediator, right? A mediator

Tiger: for post adoption families.

Rachel: Okay, for

Tiger: for both the adopted and and and this and this was, I think, probably before our hearing. Um, and we, and so we met with them and then I believe, I believe, uh, the aunt, the aunt did meet with them as well.

And then at once, and then it came time to do another second round of mediation or whatever. And we were there and the, and the, the aunt didn't, uh, didn't [00:42:00] come through for, uh, and said she didn't want to, and didn't want to, the, the, The idea being whichever way the adoption went, if it went, uh, if, if in fact we were not able to, to adopt her and she did go, uh, for guardianship with the, with the aunt that there might be some, some way of, of including us as, as, uh, and that posted an aerial.

Cause we have been with Z, we had been busy over a year at this point, Z was, you know, I mean, uh, was part of our family and we would, we were wanting to. We loved her, you know, just want to be somehow in there if it didn't work out. And the aunt was the one who, who did, uh, who did cut that off saying that, that she didn't want us to have contact, uh, post adoption and, uh, and, and didn't think it was going to, and didn't think that we were going to be able to adopt her.

And

Amy: she didn't think we had a chance, and so

Tiger: and so broke off. So there was so I, I feel like the opportunity was there to kind [00:43:00] of, at least, at least build some kind of framework that because, you know, there were, there was some contention and some, and some issues. And so I thought, so, and And so I thought, so, and And my feeling is that that that had been rejected.

Now, I, I agree with, with Amy in that I, I, I think contact under the right kind of circumstances would be healthy for our child, particularly with, with her half brother and her biological

Rachel: mother.

Tiger: Um, and, and I, and I, and I do think that. I, I need some buy-in from Zaina beforehand. Uh, some

Amy: asking that, that was the other thing is, is, is her,

Tiger: is is her desire to have this happen because she doesn't show a lot, a lot of desire for that at this point in her life.

I assume that will change. I, I, I know that will change.

Amy: Actually, Ty, that reminded me, that's kind of where we were, either the bio family's coming back and asking or Z is, [00:44:00] and that's when we would reflect.

Rachel: How long did it take you to, to recover from all of that and did it change you in some way? Did it change your relationship?

Did it affect your relationship? What

Tiger: I'll let you know when I'm over it.

Rachel: Okay.

Amy: That's so funny, Tiger, because I'm, I'm the same. Like, I think it's, it's a, it's a hard, hard PTSD.

Rachel: Yes.

Amy: I still, like, I just have to reason with myself on a pretty regular basis of, You're not going to lose her, you know, and my sister who had, um, two child, two children vaginally, um, said that that's a very common feeling.

Like she was always anxious about predators of some kind. And I'm in, so to that, you know, it feels like, you know, regular motherhood, but, um, you know, I think, I [00:45:00] think that's, that's a, that's a big concern. Um, yeah. And how it affected our relationship. I think that I am so proud of, I think we've always had a great respect and, um, enjoyment of each other.

And I think that how we navigated this as a team was just fricking. Amazing. And I'm so proud of that. And there's not many spaces. You can really talk about that without sounding like a jerk, but I'm, it just, we, we just had a, we were in lockstep every step of the way and would talk to each other at every step of the way.

And that's something that, you know, good or bad, we weren't doing in the rest of our marriage. And so we actually are, are legally divorced now. But we built, um, also beautifully, I think, a [00:46:00] really amazing way of co parenting, where um, we're bird nesting, and um, because neither one of us wanted to lose a frickin minute with her, right?

Rachel: Can you say what that, cause um, I wasn't aware until I talked to Tiger on the phone previous to this recording, I didn't know, I hadn't heard that term.

Amy: Yeah. So bird nesting was something that kind of came around in the seventies. So add a little hippie flavor to it, but it's, um, the child stays in a home and you and your co parent go in and out of that home.

So Z is always with her dog and her two cats and her toys. And there's never any like, Oh, shoot. I left this at my dad's house. Right. Oh, my mom has this. And, um, People will do it differently. Some couples will rent an apartment and then they'll share that.

Rachel: Okay.

Amy: I'm in the off time, but the way Tiger and I are doing it is he has, um, an apartment that's about 10 minutes [00:47:00] away from the house that Zarina lives in every day.

And I'm with her in that house five days a week. And then I leave on Wednesday mornings and he comes in and stays for two days. And then I come back Friday afternoons or after work or more, whatever. And then I'm with her then until that next time. But Tiger's also over every weekday morning, um, around 6.

30 to see her, to get her ready for school and to take her to school. And then on weekends, there's flexibility, like if, I mean, usually that's, that's my time. But I think what makes this work is we don't look at it like that, like we're not jerks about it. Right. If he wants to go see a concert on a Wednesday or Thursday night, when normally he would have Z, we both just try to support each other in our outside life too.

Sure. Yeah.

Tiger: Also, like [00:48:00] summer starts next week, so it's, um, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm basically daytime, daytime daddy, uh, through, through, through the week.

Amy: And, and Tiger's in a new relationship with somebody that's awesome. And Zarina's met her, um, when we got divorced, we had some rules about. Um, just from books that we had read that, you know, a new person shouldn't be introduced until about a year.

But, um, she kind of, Z kind of discovered it and we just made a uniform choice that let's not lie. Yeah. And so, you know, we just very upfront with it. So. It's, it's working, I think, really well for us.

Rachel: That's incredible. I just want to say, like, I just love hearing this, that you're both adults, you're grown ups, you're putting your own stuff aside for your child, and you're making it as, obviously it's going to be a disruption and a disturbance.

No matter what, but you're just trying to make that as [00:49:00] gentle and easy as possible. And I just think that's really cool. So congratulations to you two on that. And I hope it keeps working that way.

Amy: I think it's helping our relationship. I mean, I don't want to speak for you on that one, Tiger, but I think it's, we have a lot of warm feelings for each other that are not marriage material feelings, but that are just helping the friendship.

And the, and the, the care for each other.

Rachel: Yeah, so you, so this experience, this didn't, because sometimes people say, oh, it was such a hard experience that like we, our relationship couldn't like withstand it. But for you guys, it really wasn't this experience of the fostering to adopt that had the impact.

It was just that you were growing apart in other ways. Yeah. But as parents, you guys are super aligned. And am I getting that right? Yeah,

Tiger: usually when it comes to to our child, there's there's no division. There's no, uh, there's no, [00:50:00] we're rarely at loggerheads concerning her. Yeah,

Amy: well, there's a couple issues, but it's not right.

Tiger: And and so, you know, um, So, you know, uh, so of course, yeah, my relationship with, with Amy is, is, is, you know, she's the mother, she's the mother of my child, you know, uh, I'm, I'm, I got nothing but, uh, you know, trust and, and, and respect and, and love for that. So, uh, so it's, it's, it's, you know, that, that that's one of a lot of reasons why I can, why I can kind of work out well.

Rachel: I know you have to go tiger. I want to ask you one quick question just about your situation now. So you're dating someone and you don't have to go into her story, but I just want to point out. It's just really interesting. She's fostering to adopt and she was doing that when you met her. Right. Is that correct?

Adopted.

Tiger: No, she's got two thirteens. Oh, already adopted. Yeah. She adopted before, before, before we did. Um, uh, so, uh, [00:51:00] so yeah. So, but, uh, but yeah, it was, it was very strange because we met and no discussion of adoption or anything prior to it. We just met, we're talking, doing whatever. And, uh, and then, and then both our boys are, are, are the same age.

And I said, Oh, are they twins? You know, and she goes, no, I, I fostered to adopted my two boys. And, and I was like, what?

Amy: I love it. That's so cool. Yeah. It was, yeah, it was very funny. He came back and he's like, Amy, it's like, it was so serendipitous. I feel like it's kismet. All right, that's great.

Tiger: I don't, I don't say things like that.

Amy: You

Rachel: actually really did. Well, listen, I want to let, um, Tiger, certainly I know you have to go pick up your daughter. You guys are awesome. I love the way you're, you're figuring, you're navigating this next step of your relationship together and doing it with the utmost regard for your child, which a lot of people forget about or try to do, [00:52:00] but don't do a great job at.

And it seems like you guys are just killing it. Uh, I'm so happy that you came on and shared your story with me today. Thank you. Thanks so much for the

Amy: opportunity. And, and I highly encourage people to foster to adopt. It's, there's such a need. Even as hard as it was, would

Rachel: you do it again?

Amy: Absolutely. We all grew as people, you know, the good or the bad.

It's just, um, absolutely would. I mean, Z's very much our child and

Rachel: yeah,

Amy: I would again in a heartbeat.

Rachel: Amazing. All right, you guys. Thank you. Thanks so much. Thanks, Rachel. This has been the Foster to Forever podcast. Happy stories of non traditional families born through Foster to Adopt. Produced by Aquarius Rising.

Edited by Jason Sarrubi at Split Rock Studios. Original music composed by Joe Fulginiti. For more information or to stay in touch, visit FromFoster2Forever. com. That's From Foster, the number two. [00:53:00] Forever. com and stay connected with us on Instagram @foster2foreverpodcast. That's foster the number two forever podcast.

We'll see you next time.