Unconditional Love: A teacher adopts her student

Unconditional Love: A teacher foster adopts her student.

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Stacey: [00:00:00] It got Way worse before it got better. To me, I remember feeling very overwhelmed. Like, I was like, why are we doing all these things for me? Like, you know, I'd never had the opportunities to make my own space.

Right. I think probably in the back of her mind, she challenged me so much that it started to feel like if I push hard enough, You'll leave.

Rachel: It's the Foster to Forever podcast. Happy stories of nontraditional families born through Foster to Adopt. I'm your host, Rachel Fulginiti

hi and welcome to the show, Stacey and Demi. So happy to have you guys here today. Thank you for joining us.

Demi: Thank you.

Rachel: And thank you for connecting your schedules when I know there's like so much going on and [00:01:00] you know, it's, it's, it's hard to link up. So appreciate it. Um, you guys have such a cool story and I want to jump right in and hear about, let's, let's go all the way back just to how you met.

Like when you met, how you met. What, how did

that look, what did that look like?

Stacey: I'm going to start then because, uh, because I think that even though we share this story, it could quite possibly be different from both of our perspectives, but, uh, we met in 2007, which was my first year of teaching. Demi was in sixth grade and she was in my class and she was, uh, Maybe defiant, I would say.

The memory that sticks out to me is that she was at first difficult to connect with because as a teacher she didn't want to do what you said or whatever it was. And, um, I had her in my class and I had a teacher's assistant too. And the teacher's assistant had actually commented to me a [00:02:00] couple of times, man, I just, oh, I love all of our students, but it's so hard to connect with Demi.

And she, you know, she was going through her own stuff at that time, to her credit. But I just remember, um, Trying out a teaching tactic, I was 31 at the time, and, and telling her when I assigned her something to do, to say, I would just go up and maybe in her ear or something like that and say, you're gonna go out in the hallway right now, go to the water fountain, go to the bathroom, do whatever it is you need to do.

And you're going to come back to your desk and you're sit down and do this work. And she was more than capable. She was just like, it'll be funny to watch you try and make me do that, you know? And for some reason, I believe that that was the technique rather than like, Send her to the principal's office or have her sit out in the hall, like techniques that just don't do anything for me and maybe for her was something that she was like, okay, I'll do what you say.

Demi: Which can I say, I don't like, I feel like gentle parenting is like a huge [00:03:00] thing right now. At least in my generation, I do it all the time with my kid. I don't know if you know this, but that is literally kind of what gentle parenting is.

Stacey: Really? Because it felt a little strict with me. It was like, give you a little bit of rope, but then you're going to do what I say.

And

Demi: it's like, it's up to me,

Rachel: you

Demi: know?

Rachel: Yeah. I haven't even heard of the term and I have little ones too. I haven't even heard of the term gentle parenting. Can you give us like a, just a little mini bite about what that is?

Demi: Um, it's kind of just like, If that's your idea, I don't know. It's, it's gentle parenting is kind of just like a lot of patience because I feel like people are quick to scold and you know, cause we think like adults and kids don't think like adults.

They don't have the same, you know, they don't have any patience. We literally teach them how to eat. poop and sleep. Like, you know, so I feel like it requires a whole lot of patience and taking steps back and breaks and stuff. And, and what Stacey did with what a lot of teachers would do for me, they would just, [00:04:00] okay, go to the office, go to the office, go get your discipline.

Right. Stacey would be like, let's, you know, like, it was like, she was like, you don't have to do it right now, but we're going to do it anyway. Sure. So instead of being like, do this right now, she was like, why don't you do something you want to do? Like, go take a walk, take a breath. And then we'll come back and we'll just figure it out.

Stacey: I think there's some power in offering a little bit of control to the person who's resisting the, the being controlled and then saying, you know, I'm going to let you make a decision, but then we're also going to do what we're going to do. And, and she was, you know, I wouldn't, I don't know that I knew at the time how effective it was.

Cause to be honest, anytime you parent or teach or something, you sort of walk away going, I hope that works. You know, like, right. Yeah. So true. And in her case it did. So long story short, she was 12 at the time and she was living with her grandmother and her mother and her, uh, sibling and the

Demi: other family members.

It was a whole

Stacey: during, during that year, uh, her [00:05:00] grandmother passed away, uh, and they, uh, her mother lost their housing situation. And so, uh, At some point, I built up some trust over that school year with Demi, and then at the end of the year, I remember this, this sticks out, I don't know why, she didn't have money to buy a yearbook, but at the end of the year, this was middle school, you know, she had brought me a t shirt to sign the t shirt at the end of the year.

And I lived, I lived about six blocks from the school, and I think a lot of the kids knew where I lived. They didn't like, take advantage of it, but I said, hey, you know, if you need anything over the summer, let me know, and then that summer, Uh, of 2008 kind of went by and a little bit later that summer, I got a call from a social worker because Demi had become, uh, like, I guess in the care of the state at the time.

And, um, she was told if we don't, we can't pinpoint any family members to place you with, so unless you can think of

Demi: For the ones that were [00:06:00] located, like it was, it was, it was to the point where I didn't have any, like Reliable family members.

Rachel: Sure. Gotcha. No one that was safe for you to be staying with.

Demi

Yeah. And I think they went through, I think my caseworker straight up was like, Is there anybody? And I remember Stacey saying, like, if you need anything, and she's talking about some petty cash or something, I remember her saying, like, if you need anything, let me know. And in that moment when my, sorry, I get a little emotional.

Rachel

Yeah, no, that's okay.

Demi: In that moment when my caseworker had asked me, like, can you think of, like, anybody? And like, I was like embarrassed, like, this is my teacher, like, you know, and, and I was like, Ms. Glomboski? And they were like, who's that? And so they called the school and I think the school.

Stacey: They called, I think she called me and asked like, can we give them your number?

Right. Wow. But to I, I, I, to people who are thinking about this, this is gonna sound a little hippy dippy trippy maybe, but like when bring it on case worker. Prior to the [00:07:00] casework call I had had the sense like. in my mind. You're, you're going to parent, but you're going to foster parent. And it was just nothing more than an intuitive feeling to the point that when the caseworker called, I remember being like, this is the call.

I knew exactly why she was calling, who she was calling about, and I knew that I was going to say yes.

Rachel: Wow, that is so incredible. And was this something that you had felt only after you had met her? Or had you always felt this like a long time ago since you were like young, you just had that feeling? It was for years prior.

Stacey: I had always been interested in, in almost like more of the orphan type, like maybe adoption situation. And in our case, Demi came to live as foster. Her mom was working to retain, well, she had her parental rights and she was not giving up her parental rights, but you have to go through these steps to earn, to have your children back.

Sure. And, and she just wasn't making those [00:08:00] steps. So we stayed in foster care. The whole time, Uhhuh. And we were living in the state of Oregon at the time.

Demi: And what they were very lenient with my mother, like Uhhuh. Uh, they were super lenient with her. They gave her plenty of time too.

Rachel: Right, right. Let, let's backtrack a little bit.

I just wanna clarify. So when you first were in, uh, Stacey's class, were you, um. Were you new to that school and that environment as well? Or had you been already in that school?

Demi: Um, I,

Rachel: she was just new as a teacher in

Demi: seventh grade.

Stacey: Okay. Cause

Demi: I don't think she was in

Stacey: sixth grade. You came to seventh grade at 13, but I met you when you were 12.

Demi: Right. Um, no, I had, I'd grown up in, in Springfield. I mean, I walked the 20 blocks to go to school. Like, no, I was, I was very, you know, I, I was very used to being like thrown to the principal's office. Like everybody knew me as a student. I had an older sister who was often. You know, we live in the same [00:09:00] household, so, you know, they knew what they're getting into with me.

Rachel: Yep. Yep. Okay. Gotcha. And, and so what was different about, was it just her willingness to let you just kind of be where you were and then make a decision yourself?

Stacey: She needed somebody.

Demi: I had no leadership and I had no time. Like it was like almost like, Oh, you're gonna, you're gonna try to, you know, like it was almost like a fun challenge for me and like looking back on it, it seems like all kid fun.

But I literally, I was. You know, I definitely took advantage of a lot of teachers because all they did was send me to the office. They didn't, you know, they just were like, all right, go, all right, go. It was like more of like, she didn't, maybe she did challenge me, but she did it in a way that I, in a language that I could.

respond to.

Stacey: Right.

Demi: But I, you know, I grew up in a household where there was a lot of yelling, a lot of giving up. Yeah. A lot of, um, you know, chaos and stuff. And so that's why I kind of just knew how to spread.

Stacey: Yes. My

Demi: other teachers, they would [00:10:00] just be like, all right. But Stacey was like, right.

Rachel: Right. Like she was, right.

Like she was expecting something of you. And she wasn't just kind of giving up on you and just like, okay, this is the problem kid. Like just

Demi: And she was fun. Like, she liked being a teacher. Like, I remember walking in here at 730 in the morning. She's like in the hallway. You could hear her down the hallway.

She's like, but up, up, up, up. Like she would do like little rings and like, kids wouldn't do it. And I'd be like, I'm loving it. One teacher. I love it. That's supposed to be, you know, a leader, you know, something that kids look up to and you know, for not having any children, and she just knew how to talk to kids.

She was my favorite teacher for that. Yeah.

Rachel: Amazing. So you get the call, you get the call, you already know, and you're just like, you just, you don't even think about it. You just say yes. It was fast. Yes. I'm going to do it. And, and so then you had to, did you have to like get certified to [00:11:00] foster like before she came or while she came or how did that, what happened?

She just came over one day?

Stacey: I had to go through a series of classes, but since it was August and I was a teacher. I was off and I had a planned vacation back to the East Coast. Um, we had to wait a little bit before she was placed with me. And I think I started taking the classes, but I think they allowed her to come and move in.

And while I continued the classes, but I did have someone come and fully interview me, inspect our house. Sure. And to, to contribute to that. But the certification process, I did have to go to a lot of parenting classes and this was like way pre Zoom. I had to go to all of them in person. Yeah. And like, and, and attend those classes.

But I don't remember it, um, conflicting with like needing care for her or worrying about things in the home and two things that pop out from that time were that she showed up [00:12:00] with two black plastic garbage bags. of her possessions. I remember that.

Rachel: Yep. That's the old story that hopefully they're trying to change that, but I think it still exists.

It still happens today. It's like, put your stuff in a garbage bag and let's go.

Demi: It's really, I was living in my friend's closet, like I had two foster homes within, I think the 10 months. Like, I think I was in foster care for 10 months before I was with Stacey. I was in two foster homes prior to that and I was just used to moving my stuff around anyway.

But yeah, there's basically just hauling a blanket and a couple of bags.

Stacey: Crazy. I feel like one of the first things we did together too was like paint her room like neon green.

Demi: We went to the thrift store before we even went home.

Stacey: I used to have a 1971 Volkswagen van. She hated it. She wanted me to get a real car, you know, but I totally remember that now.

We went to the like antique store and picked out one of those like wrought iron, old school wrought iron bed frames. I had that frame.

Demi: Until a couple of years ago, like I had, [00:13:00] and

Stacey: I, I made her get a dressing table. I was like, you're going to want this to do your hair and like, and there was something else I was thinking that I remembered from that time, but it escaped me.

So you had

Rachel: to, you, you happen to have an extra room. Like you had an extra room?

Stacey: Yeah, i had my first teaching job and I had just bought a really cute, I think it was like 1, 000. 40 square feet, but it had three bedrooms, ample room for us. I had a dog, you know, even though I was a single woman and teacher, um, I had like, it was, it was the creation of that kind of family.

It sort of, I remember it feeling pretty right. Oh, I remember what I was going to say. I think some people when they take on, she wasn't a stranger to me, obviously, in some cases when you're considering doing foster care, you're taking on someone you don't know anything about. And I think that my [00:14:00] knowing her prior built up some degree of trust, but I also feel like I, I kind of lucked out because she doesn't.

steal. I mean, if she went through my stuff, I didn't know. And maybe there was nothing to find. Um, she, she, uh, you know, wasn't into abusing drugs or alcohol, which again, they're teenagers, it happens, you know, but like, so in those areas, I would say like, maybe it was because we had some trust beforehand. We had some things in our favor.

It was really, I think our biggest struggles were, um, establishing schedule and expectations, Becoming anger. outbursts, controlling temper, and um, and really just like establishing this routine of trust and safety. And maybe even I would venture to say Demi was very defiant. in her actions and words. And she struck out with [00:15:00] words a lot at the time.

But she also, I think probably in the back of her mind, she challenged me so much that it started to feel like if I push hard enough, you'll leave. Like you, you, you'll stop caring if I push hard enough.

Rachel: And she tried her best to get you to stop. Yeah. Wow. Wow.

Demi

I didn't know safe love. Yes, I was very fearful of being left and after I had already established a trust and a safety in that person.

I don't think I, you know, cognitively thought of that then, but now looking back, I can think like, I didn't know safe love. I didn't know trust or anything, especially with authority or adult figures. Like everything was just chaos to me. So I think I was fearful of it when it was really the safest place I could be that I was just like, I need to go back to what I know.

I need to go where I, you know, like as crazy as that sounds like chaos.

Stacey: I remember saying [00:16:00] things to you when you would tell me about your previous experience and saying to you, like, I'm sorry that happened to you, but that's not normal for a family. And, and it's, it's an outlier that that happened to you.

And she would respond to me. It didn't feel abnormal because it was all I knew. Yeah, that was normal.

Rachel: Absolutely. I mean, that makes perfect sense. It's like, what we know is familiar and it's comfortable in that way. Regardless of how painful or horrible it is. It's like, it's still what you know. So that makes perfect sense.

And especially at that age, you, uh, dealing with hormones and dealing with just being that age is difficult enough as it is. So that is, um, I can imagine that that was a really tough time. And I also just want to point out, you know, so many people are so afraid, particularly, um, of adopting an older child because of what you were saying about like the potential for, you know, [00:17:00] tons of baggage and, and um, possible, you know, abuse and possible, um, you know, all of this stuff that, that people are afraid of and, and.

A, it's like, that can happen with your biological kids, too, and it does all the time, A. But B, also, like, I just think it's really important to point out that you weren't into drugs and alcohol. You weren't doing that kind of stuff. And people would sort of, a lot of people make the jump automatically. They think that that is what, uh, a preteen or a teenage foster child is going to be, oh, they're going to be a mess in that way.

Demi: I was around it plenty. I, I mean, I can't, I now talking to my biological mother, I like, don't really know her. Like as, as it, you know, it's been years and years and years, but like, When I knew my mother, she was, you know, high or drunk or chaotic and, and now I think when, you know, I graduated high school, she came out to visit us.

I was super uncomfortable with her being here because like, I just felt [00:18:00] like I didn't know her cause she was, she was sober at the time. Uh huh. Yeah. She just wanted to be around me and love me. And I was just like, I don't know you. Like it was so good to get back to what you were saying. I know I didn't want, I didn't want I didn't want to, you know, repeat what my mom was, I think I said it to my sister and I promised each other like we would never and I'm pretty sure my sister now still use drugs or alcohol.

Rachel: Right, right. You just, you saw that and you were like, I don't want that to be me. I don't want that to be my life. Wow.

Stacey: Great to hear. And early on with that, there was still, despite all the chaos, there was a clear bond between Demi and her maternal, her mother. Biological mom. I mean, I was never interested in standing between that.

I mean, I would defend her if I needed to, but I really allowed a lot of, you know, all those efforts. And despite that, it's just sometimes choices. She would still, we would give her the benefit of the doubt and she would [00:19:00] still let Demi down. And then sometimes we would have to Demi would internalize it, and I would want to talk about it, and, and she was like, not ready to talk.

I had to learn. I really did have to learn her language, because we would fight, and I would be like, we can't sweep this under the rug. We have to talk about it. And

Demi: still struggle. I don't know. You guys can't see me, but I'm like messing with my hands. I still struggle to talk about things like this with my mom.

Yeah.

Stacey: Yeah, sure. I get that. But there were also times where I feel like, um, you know, even though Demi's mom never made it to get back for her, this goes back to my initial feeling about the whole thing. I sort of felt when Demi moved in, this is it. She's not going to leave. And even though I knew that her mom, Maybe that came out wrong.

I meant to say like, she's going to stay with me. Right. And even though her mom was making efforts or telling whoever that she was making the efforts, Uh huh. I, I, Once Demi moved in [00:20:00] with me, I had the distinct feeling that this was, sorry, honey, you're forever. Yeah.

Rachel: And what about you, Demi? Did you feel that way or no?

Not at all.

Demi: I mean, looking back, I, as, as Stacey was just talking, I was like, I wonder how I was thinking. You know what? I thought I truly, I think, gosh, this could go in a million different directions of like the possibilities of what I was thinking. Like, I, I think I, I think I wanted, cause you know, there was, I don't know if I want to skip ahead, but like there was a point where Stacey and I were, we were separated for a minute and that was like, I was like, if I can't go back with her, like what's going to happen?

Like what's going to happen? It, it did get to a point where. You know, for a kid, I don't think we think about like the long term, but once it was taken from me, I was like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, no, no, no, I need her.

Rachel: You know? Yes, absolutely.

Stacey: And I don't think that's uncommon for people to not really realize what they've got until [00:21:00] it's gone.

And I feel like that's an important part of our story. We tried, we had like about a six month honeymoon period and then we had a nice two year long stretch of like, learning each other almost two years. It was 20 months before we were separated. But at that time it got way worse before it got better. I think

Demi: what I was thinking was like, well, I should just move on to the next.

I didn't really think like I knew I loved Stacey and I knew I, I, I, maybe I thought I didn't deserve or she didn't deserve what I was. Uh huh. You know, so maybe that's why I pushed her. Uh huh. Like, I was like, you're not ready for me. You don't need me. Uh huh. Like, I, this is not where I come from. We don't match.

Like, stuff like that. I think that's what was running through my head, and I mean.

Rachel: Yeah, that makes sense. Were you still calling her Ms. Glemboski? Glemboski.

Stacey: No, she always called me Stacey. Stacey. Okay. Maybe at school she called me Ms. Glemboski.

Demi: I remember we were listening to, [00:22:00] I forget, I think we were in a Tupac while painting my room parrot's feather green.

Rachel: Oh yeah, I want to hear the, the, the, the neon green story. How did that, that happened right at the beginning?

Demi: Oh yeah, we, as soon as we bought like a nightstand, the vanity, a mirror and a bed frame. And I think we, we had to wait for the bed to be shipped or something. We were in my new room painting, which to me, I remember feeling very overwhelmed.

Like I was like, why are we doing all these things for me? Like I'm never before, like, why are we, but you know, I got to pick any color. So I picked like the most obnoxious green color and my, my quilt on my bed was pink and lime green. And it was just, you know, I'd never had the opportunities for, for, for, to make my own space.

So,

Rachel: right.

Demi: Yeah. I remember, you know, I, we were painting the room and I was like, so do I call you? Like, what do I call you? What do I call you? Stacey? Yeah. Miss G, what do I call you? Yeah. I think maybe I even said mom, like, do you want me to call you mom? And she was like, Stacey, you can call me Stacey.

Rachel: [00:23:00] So it's always been Stacey, not mom.

Stacey

Yeah. And she still does unless she's talking to her friends about me. When she's talking to her friends about me, she'll say like my mom, but. When she's talk, like when she's talking to me and I think I'm in her phone is like, you know. Mother. Mom type person or something like that. Mother with the queen emoji.

Mother. Aww. With the queen emoji. But, um, but still, and I'm totally, totally comfortable with that. Like that. Yeah. I've, I've never needed her to call me mom because I,

Demi: I have,

Stacey: I don't care about the name. Sure. Gotcha.

Demi: That's, that's what I want to echo. Yeah. Is the feelings there. But I think I associate mom with.

my mother and that kind of doesn't have a positive association.

Rachel: Yeah, I totally get that. And I think it's whatever works.

Demi: And I think it's so I think I tried to call my own mother Michelle once and she was like, don't you So I've never even called her by her name. It's just Right. [00:24:00] Mom and That's fine.

Rachel: Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. So were you in touch with your siblings? It was, you said you had a sister. Did you, were there other siblings also in the picture or

Demi: Uh, not in this picture. No. Okay. I have, I have two other siblings that are the same father, but my older sister is Sibling that I keep talking about was my sister.

Um, she was same. We grew up together. She was my same father. Sure.

Rachel: I'm just wondering what happened with her to her. Where did she go?

Stacey: Well, that's a really good and relevant question. Uh huh.

Demi: Especially to this, you know, what, you know, all this. She, um, She, I know she bounced from several homes, like group girl homes, and, uh, I stayed at a place while Stacey was, um, on the East Coast.

Stacey: Okay. I

Demi: stayed with her, and I mean, there's a reason that we weren't placed together. We fought the whole time. Uh huh.

Rachel: How much older is she than you? She's 15

Demi: [00:25:00] months older than me.

Stacey: Oh, wow. So you guys are almost the same age. And I don't think she was at our same middle school because I didn't know her. At the same

Demi: alternative school.

I don't know if that's a real phrase, but she's in

Stacey: Oregon.

Demi: It is in Oregon. The worst school in the actual general public schools of Oregon. Right, right, right. But, um, he was never placed with Stacey. There were several times where we were around, all three of us.

Rachel: But, um, Okay. And, and did you, Stacey, think, like, God, she has a sister too, and like, should, did they ask you, like, would you be willing to take on?

Or, or no, because you guys didn't get along anyway, that they didn't, the state didn't think of placing you together.

Stacey: I never, I don't think, so I guess the short answer is, they never asked me. Okay. I really, I think I would have had a heart for Desiree if they had asked me, but I also knew that they didn't really get along.

It didn't seem to me, I guess in my foggy memory, that they wanted to live [00:26:00] together at the time. Um, Desiree was that much older that the couple of times that I was like, let's get together with your sister and go out to dinner and I would be like, why don't we put our phones away at the table. Uh, Transcribed Taco Bell, you know?

Right. And her sister really met my suggestion with a ton of defiance and like, you're not my mom, like, you can't tell me what to do. Sure. And I, I just, to be honest, like, I had a connection with Demi in class and then later on, and I didn't have that same kind of connection with Desiree, but I, I would have tried, but no one ever asked.

It was, I was, I don't think. I think I thought that they didn't want to live together.

Demi: And we lived together for that month where you were here and I was waiting for you to come back and we were like, No, this isn't going to work.

Rachel: Interesting.

Demi: You know, I think siblings are supposed to be placed together, but we were, you know, pre adolescent, or what is it?

We were, um, pre teens.

Rachel: We, um, just, It wasn't, it wasn't a good [00:27:00] match. Yeah, it's interesting because now it's all about keeping the, the biological family together. And many times that's a wonderful, wonderful thing. Most times I would say probably it ends up being, but sometimes it's not. And, and now they've really swung in the direction of no matter what, it has to be, and even with the foster parents, like it has to be somebody by, you know, blood related, even if that person isn't necessarily the best, um, Choice for safety and health and all that stuff.

So it's

Stacey: To be honest, I think it was the best decision for us for two reasons. One at 13 and 15 and me at 31. If they decided to, they probably could have ganged up pretty successfully on me. Um, but, but then I also think, uh, it's just, it's You get pulled in your own direction, I [00:28:00] think, and, um, Desiree at 15 at the time was, was very independent.

She had a mind of her own. She sort of, you know, Had, I think, her path set in her mind and to be honest, our story, I, I regret it sometimes because if I could have helped, I think that Demi's story ended up a lot more traditional family than, than Desiree's did. And I don't know if that's what she wanted or didn't want or if she's happy with, with the way things turned out.

But right. Demi was, Demi ended up with a lot more structure. Moving forward, which

Demi: I mean, by the time you and I ended up living together, I had already been in the system for almost a year. And I think maybe that's why it was an offer. Maybe she was comfortable whatever location she, because I mean, when we had, when we had separated from my mother, my mother was literally like, Hey, where I'm going, you can't come.

So find somewhere to go. So we both called our friends and then we had [00:29:00] separated from that moment. And I think they had started the foster process with the friend and then she had moved again. And then they had started the process, maybe that's why it wasn't, um, maybe that's why we weren't placed together.

We had already kind of separated and preferred it. I don't know. I'm not sure.

Stacey: Okay. Yeah. I think maybe she thought she was going someplace that would work when she got placed that time, but then I feel like she bounced around a little bit after that.

Demi: She did quite a few times after that.

Rachel: And are you still in touch with her today?

Demi: Well, his name is Silas now and he lives in Ohio and he does have a son who lives there as well. And um, I think it is important to, you know, when I was talking about him when we were children to reflect as a, as my sister, as a female and as a, as Desiree. But I mean, he started to, you know, not disassociate from Desiree a while ago, but yeah, he, he's um.

Okay. He's got his own, you know, life going on in Ohio and he's getting his top surgery this month. So I'm pretty sure my biological [00:30:00] brother's going to visit, uh, this week for that. So, yeah, you know, he's got his family and his own life and stuff. Uh, I'm sure if we did speak or talk to each other or see each other, it would be very, you know, we, we will always have that.

sibling connection. Sure. But we're just like, we respect each other for that. That's right.

Rachel: You don't have to be in each other's lives actively to respect each other and love each other from afar basically is what I'm hearing. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. That's great. It works for us. Sure. Sure. And your biological mom, you're still in touch with as well.

Yeah. Okay.

Demi: Cool. She's, she, she checks in here and there. And, um, yeah, she's going to visit my brother this week for the top surgery, help take care of him. So she's, I mean, now that we, my brother and I both have children, she's, um, actively pursuing relationships with us, but yeah, she sends care

Stacey: packages for Demi's son.

Rachel: [00:31:00] Nice. Yeah. That's really nice. And, Stacey, are you, uh, like on good terms with

Stacey: Totally. Yeah. When Debbie mentioned that her mom came for Demi's high school graduation in Uh huh. We lived in New Jersey at that time because it So, at one point in our relationship, we moved from Oregon to New Jersey.

Rachel: Right. I want to get to that.

Yeah, yeah.

Stacey: And, um When Demi's mom came to visit, like Demi said, she could take it to a certain point. And then Demi totally was like, Stacey, hang out with my mom. And I wanted to, like, we get along very well. She's always been very

Demi: That's another thing I think we had going for us, why our process was so smooth.

So, like my mom really admired Stacey, like she's always

Stacey: been very nice and kind. Oh, that's so great. Never stepped on each other's toes. There's never been a jealousy thing that sometimes happens with women and like, right. It's always been really cool. And when we were tasked with hanging out together, We chomped up like it was cool.

Wow, that's

Rachel: so amazing. Um, just to get, like, really woo woo for a second, because I know [00:32:00] you guys can go there, um, you know, perhaps, I mean, I truly believe, like, this was, like, the, this was meant to be, right? And so, we don't always, uh, Like, like what things start out as and how they evolve. Sometimes it evolves into something like it, it goes where it's supposed to go sometimes.

Mm-Hmm. and

Demi: I, I just, I've always

felt Yeah.

Stacey: Water goes downhill.

Demi: Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's really just how it's always felt with us. I mean, Mm-Hmm. . At least I've, right. That's Stacey's my,

Rachel: your soul. Your soul mama. Yeah, I love that. Let's go back to the separation. So you guys were, had been living together. There was the honeymoon period for, for six months or whatever it was.

Then there was the very difficult, uh, 20 month period of, um, just, just challenges and dealing with the baggage and unpacking things and establishing a rhythm and all of that, which makes perfect sense. What happened after that?

Stacey: You want to go [00:33:00] first? From my perspective, uh, during that 20 months, as you're growing comfortable, like it was from the smallest thing of we're going to eat at five, you'll be here.

And she's like, why do we need to eat together? You know, establishing small routines like that. But then it was just starting like the cell phone era. And I was trying to impart that. Like, if I'm going to provide you with a cell phone while you're in 7th, 8th, your first freshman year, 9th grade, like, um, then you need to pay attention to your grades.

I don't need A's. I need C's. Yeah. You need to earn C's in order for me to provide that cell phone. And Demi. Demi. I mean, sometimes to my face and sometimes not was really like, it's going to be funny to watch you try and make me do that. You know, and that defiant streak that I was talking about earlier, um, she, she used words [00:34:00] to hurt at the time.

And I'm not saying this to hurt you, honey, I'm totally over it. But like, there were, there were, there were a lot of times where I would, and my family lived on the East coast where I would call them up and Demi had just said something to me like, You're like not even a real parent. So it's really funny watching you try to parent me because you don't know what you're doing and you're just like pretending and you think you know what you're doing.

So she's like, but nice try. You're not even a real parent. And I get that. Like she, but she would always go for like what she thought would hurt me the most. Oh, it's fine, honey. I mean, like kids do. That's what aren't foster kids do that. Kids do that. And they tell their parents they hate them. And they say that it's impossible and they just fight back with them.

And um.

Rachel: By the way, I was like incredibly rebellious and like, oh my God, I mean, some of the things I said, I remember telling my parents in my senior year of high school, like, there is nothing. That you can do or say that's going to make me [00:35:00] do what you want me to do. I'm going to do exactly what I want to do, no matter what.

Like I'm, I was that defiant to like, I get it. I love your spirit. Yeah.

Demi: It's exhausting. I'm like, Hey, geez. I know. So much energy into that. But like kids, I guess just got that expendable energy. They can just exhaust that.

Rachel: I know. And there's anger, right? Like, so I have anger. I had trauma in my childhood as well.

So like, I can really not, it's not the same, but I can relate to this. Anger deep inside that still to this day comes out. I have it. I just have it.

Stacey: The biggest thing I noticed with her is that we had required counseling appointments and I could see, like Demi was very quick to anger and very, very, you know, you could tell that she was holding onto a lot of anger and for good reason, but I would, I would take her to the counseling appointment, drag her to the counseling appointments that she did not want to go to.

She would, I know this sounds like a TV sitcom. She would sit there for an hour [00:36:00] and say nothing and be like this. So and then at the end, she'd be like to the counselor. She would be like, did you have fun? Because this is what's going to be like next week. If she gets me back here next week to which I would get her back there next week.

And so when we lived in Oregon, I would say the counseling was a wash. I dragged her there kicking and screaming. I don't even remember our counselor's names. I don't remember anything about it. But it was a requirement of the foster care to have her like talk it out with a therapist. And we tried, but it was not working.

And so that was part of our, our first 20 months, which 20 months doesn't sound like a lot, but it is almost two years and you really do form a connection and a bond, even if you're fighting the whole time in that time. And so the things that I remember from that were that, um, there were times where, you know, Demi would start to get boyfriends and she would tell me about the different boyfriends.

Of course I never, I never approved ever, but I wasn't super vocal about that. I just like would teach her. [00:37:00] To respect herself and, you know, you know, those kind of things. But there were a lot of times where I would say, you can't go out tonight. And you would open up her bedroom door to the curtain blowing in the breeze.

And I don't even remember sometimes how I was tipped off to where she was. I don't know, but I specifically remember one time driving to this park because I just, she had run away and I knew that she was there. She was out when she shouldn't be. And I. Rolled, I remember rolling up in my car and, and I hope you don't remember this differently, but I felt like a superhero that day.

So I have to tell it from my perspective, but I rolled up in the car and she was there with her little boyfriend swinging on the swings or something like that, you know, and I rolled the window down and I said to her, no one's forcing us to be together. You're making a choice right now that I have to tell the caseworker about making this choice and it's going to make it harder for us.

So like, you need to get in the car right now and we're going home. And then I'm like, [00:38:00] I don't know how it worked, but she was like, It

Rachel: worked. You got in the car.

Stacey: I'll see you later to her boyfriend, she saunters over the car at like 1 miles per hour, like as slowly as possible, you know. Gets in the car and I drove her home.

I don't think we said a word. I think we got back home. She went into her room. And so like there were times where she was defiant, but there was times where she would reluctantly listen. And then there were times where she would slam the door and I would take the door off the hinges and she would be like, I need my privacy, you know, like, and, and we would leave it off until she earned it back or like, and then just at the end of the 20 months for us, to my memory, the, what, what it came down to is we got in a fight over something.

I cannot remember. And I remember it getting physical, like she chucked her Converse sneaker at me and it hit me. And then it just, it sort of escalated physically to where I can remember attempting to restrain her. Like having my arm, [00:39:00] like, you know. This and the only reason I remember this is because she fricking bit me like on the arm to get me to let her go.

And I mean, granted, this was out of control. Parents in any situation have the opportunity to react or not react. And it's very difficult not to react. And I think there were a lot of times where I remember. teaching myself not to engage because as soon as you engage, she would start to use the things that I said against me and turn blame around on me as if the things that were happening were because of me.

It's all like very child psychology normal. But in this particular case, our culmination really was almost like a physical altercation to where I had bruises. I had, you know, and then I think she just left. And I didn't know where she went. Of course, the caseworker checks in. Like, it was [00:40:00] my obligation. I didn't want to tell on her.

I was kind of torn. Yeah. Because I didn't want to tell on her. I didn't want her to go anywhere. I knew it was just a fight. Right. But I also had to tell the caseworker what happened. Sure. And I can distinctly remember the caseworker's words to me. Her name was, Deb? Wasn't the case worker's name Deb? She was kind of like a, She was a little crusty.

You know, she was like a, hardened by the social care system. Demi was never her easiest kid. Yeah. She looked me in the face and said, Stacey, you're involved with Demi in a cycle of abuse that will continue and we're going to separate you. And during that, they, so they, they removed her from my home. I think it was like, Well, you had taken a trip to see your half brother in California, and this happened like right after you came back.

And so they decided to remove her, but then they also put us on an absolutely no contact order. Like, I wasn't allowed to call her. I wasn't allowed to check in. I wasn't allowed to talk to her at all.

Demi: It was like we had, it [00:41:00] was like the other person died.

Stacey: There was real grief for

Demi: me. It was sudden, and it was.

silent.

Rachel: Why would they think that would be that's just insanity. Wow. That's right. I remember thinking it was weird.

Demi: Yeah. And I knew that she was leaving. She was moving to new to the East Coast.

Stacey: I think that this was in like about March of 2010 when she was removed. My mom had passed away in January of 2010, so it had been on my mind to return to the East Coast to be my brother's sister again, to be my father's daughter again, just to be, like, closer to family.

Sure. And I had had it in my mind that I was going to ask if we could go, and then she was removed from my house in March, and she was gone for 10 weeks. And I made the decision to resign from my teaching job and move myself back to the East Coast. So I said, look, I'm leaving. I haven't talked to her and we're like [00:42:00] family.

Like, let me say goodbye. And so the caseworker then said to me, It's not really working out. Would you, would you be interested in taking her back? And I said, well, I'll take her back, but she's going to New Jersey with me. And so she basically came back at the end of June and we got in the car and left, what, five days later?

And we had a ton of repair to do. It was a little, I will say, awkward at first. Yeah, I bet. Getting back together. It was, it was like, what are you gonna do? How do you really feel? We never talked about what happened. We hadn't talked to each other at all, like, almost since that explosive incident. And And then I was like, well, now you're moving to New Jersey.

And she had just, sorry, honey, I'm going to add this one in there because it's one of my favorite parts of the story, finished what I call her first freshman year in which she attended school, but got literally no freshman year credits.

0. 5. Not even for us.

Demi: [00:43:00] I passed gym.

Stacey: Maybe. Maybe I'm leaving that out.

Okay.

Demi: In Oregon you can get D's.

Stacey: When we moved to New Jersey, it was, um, my job to find a new job and we had rented a house and enrolled her in school in New Jersey. And for all the efforts that she, and she was starting freshman year again. So she actually did like a second freshman year. Sure. Um, and, uh, I remember in that year as we were patching things up and I, we had dogs and I believe our dogs helped bond us because actually a part we left out of the story was that shortly after Demi's mom couldn't care for Demi anymore, she asked us to take their dog too.

And Demi's dog, Nikita, was the perfect dog. And it was, she was so good for Demi to have the dog that she loved with us. And she got along best friends with the dog I already had.

Demi: Immediately, they were best friends. They didn't even sniff each other's butts.

Stacey: I really feel [00:44:00] like there's dog therapy going on, like those two dogs really helped us, like, bond.

Rachel: Did you have the dog the whole time when she was gone? I had my, uh, did I have the dog? Or did she take the dog?

Demi: You had to have had Nikita, I didn't have,

Stacey: yeah. No, I think I kept the dog when she was gone. Well, by that point, I mean, that was my dog. I loved that dog so much.

Demi: Did my mother know that we were separated? Did you have any, or was she in prison?

I can't remember.

Stacey: But it wouldn't have, I don't think it would have made a difference. I can't remember.

Rachel: And during those 10 weeks, Demi, were you just, were you with another foster family or like where were you? What was happening during those 10 weeks?

Demi: I was in another home. I didn't know these people.

Apparently they're like my second cousins by marriage or something. And I mean, as Stacey said, I gave them 10 weeks of, you know, what I gave Stacey and they couldn't I just, I think that's another way to just prove how unconditional Stacey's [00:45:00] love goes because she gave me 20 months of that and I could only give them 10 weeks before they were like, she needs to get out, you know, so I was by no means easy.

I was right. I mean, you've heard it, but like, you know, it's just how far Stacey's love went. I think truly what, what did it for us.

Rachel: Were you so relieved when you, when you guys, when you finally came back, like even if there was stuff and whatever, like deep inside, were you just so relieved?

Demi: I was leaving my childhood home.

My friends were my family. I remember waving them from rear view, like a movie, like being like a, like I knew that I was leaving my friends, but I knew I was leaving with Stacey and I knew that that was what I needed, what I wanted.

Stacey: Yeah, I do remember it being very emotional for her leaving her friends, and to be honest, I doubt I've ever even told her this.

I was nervous. Mm-Hmm. . I, I was nervous. I knew that I wanted her to be with me. Mm-Hmm. . I didn't even hesitate when they were like, will you take her back? I was like, yes. Mm-Hmm. , of course. Mm-Hmm. . But I was [00:46:00] nervous for what was ahead and really even when we back moved back to New Jersey, the success stories are with her.

The, the little successes that we made. Mm-Hmm. are almost as common as, I mean, we got in a ton of fights when she was in high school. a ton. But one of the things that helped Demi, I think, was in Oregon, the conversation was, what are you going to do after high school? And in New Jersey, the conversation was, what college are you going to?

And so even as early as freshman year, It was like, her friends would be like, your mom lets you get C's? Like, I have to be on the honor roll every year.

Demi: Yeah, there's definitely like a social anxiety amongst grades here. It was a completely different environment. That was probably the only real culture shock I had.

Like, people don't scare me. Yeah, people don't scare me. It was like, fitting in. Like, I needed to fit in and, and, and kids, no kids failed here. Not even, you know, the kids that you would. Think would Right. Not an option.

Rachel: [00:47:00] Wow. Wow. Mm-Hmm. . So you went to a really good school district, obviously when you, did you continue teaching Stacey or did you just forget, you were just like done?

Stacey: I did, I found a teaching job. It took me a couple months and I finally found a, a permanent teaching job in Franklin Lakes, New Jersey. The home of the Real Housewives . Oh, nice. . Wow. But we lived in an area as well where it was a pretty affluent, like all of her, I feel like a lot of her friends, parents, and families, a lot of people have, have money.

The town where the Jonas Brothers grew up.

Rachel: Ah, gotcha. Wow.

Demi: The Jonas Brothers wife, yes.

Rachel: Okay. Gotcha. Um, and how was your, how did your family, Stacey, receive Demi and was it, was it difficult? Was it easy? Was it just, just coming back and like, okay, I have this. This kid, this is my kid, you know,

Demi: I want . I want to talk about that too, but yeah, I would love to hear about it.

Stacey

Because to me, I'm like, they just, they are, they love me. So they were like, what you want to do. If you love her, we love her. But I think her answer is probably going to be better.

Rachel

I [00:48:00] Would love to hear it.

Demi

It was literally like, I mean, everything with all like, you know, Like Christmas was overwhelming. Like I'm so used to my mom would hand me a hundred bucks and tell me to go to Walmart.

And I was like, okay, so you had the money, but you didn't have the time, you know? I remember, I remember Christmas to me, they were handing me gifts and there was just like. I mean, cause we had visited before we moved here, right. But I just remember Christmas day, it was just like, who are these all for?

These are all real gifts. These aren't like pretend like stage, like just the boxes and the food and the energy and like, uh, just, I remember for the first time I met them, we flew out. I flew for the first time ever on an airplane on my birthday. We went to a Rockettes show. Oh, wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They had a birthday cake ready for me, like, when we walked in the door.

Like, there was literally no awkwardness. They were so excited.

Rachel

That is so sweet.

Demi

They were so excited for Stacey.

Rachel

I love that.

Demi

Yeah, like, it was, it was, it was just another thing that was like, this is the [00:49:00] universe telling us that this is what's going to happen. Like they were my family immediately.

Rachel: Yes.

Unconditional love. That is so beautiful. You know, I, I'll just share with you when I brought Izzy, uh, three months after we had started fostering my daughter, Izzy, who's now seven, uh, she was only three months old and we had to go back for a wedding. And I remember being really nervous about how, cause I'm, live in LA, but all my family's on the East coast.

about like, are they going to accept her? And like, how are they going to accept her? And I thought that they would, but like, I didn't know. And I felt really kind of nervous about that. Like they better accept her and just be like super loving. And like, I remember having my guard up in that way. And I remember being there and they, they just, welcomed her with open arms, like as if she was my child already.

And it was just so beautiful. Yeah.

Demi: Yeah.

Stacey: Your child

Demi: on all. Yeah. And on, on all parts, it's just such a relief because that's a natural, you know, fear to have. Yeah.

Stacey: But you know what? Something that might be important, [00:50:00] especially for people who are establishing this connection with their families and their foster kid.

I did make a wall of pictures at Maya and Demi's house in Borgman that had the faces of all the people she was going to meet. And I was like, you know, this is my aunt, these are my cousins, that's my mom, my dad, my brother. So she had a visual of who they all were. And then it was art on our wall in our house too.

It was like our family pictures wall. So she knew who everyone was as she was meeting them. And I do think that helped.

Rachel: Yes, absolutely. And then point of clarification, when you moved to New Jersey, did the state of Oregon just say, Okay, like you're moving to New Jersey or did they, did you have to switch over to New Jersey foster care or like, how did that work?

Demi: It was like a dual thing, right? Like New Jersey and Oregon were like my mom and dad.

Stacey: Uh huh. I didn't, once we got to New Jersey, they transferred our case to New Jersey's social care system. And just as a side note, the [00:51:00] healthcare, And the amount of attention that we got was way better in Oregon when we really when we moved to New Jersey.

I really liked our New Jersey caseworker and I felt like she cared about us and, and that was cool. But we were her outliers because she was navigating. She wasn't what she called a New Jersey kid. She was an Oregon kid. So it was sort of like New Jersey was watching an Oregon kid on their caseload, but we were under all of the New Jersey rules.

So we were

Demi: I'm sorry. In New Jersey, you, you are out of, they foster, what do they call it? The foster out system. They, they, they remove you from their system by 18. And I was going to be 19 by the time I graduated college in Oregon. It's 21. Ah, interesting. So their whole system, cause it's more common in Oregon.

So they have more recess resources. They have more knowledge. They have more. Yeah. So, so in Oregon, it was a lot more tech. Like, not tedious, but it was a lot more, um, [00:52:00] hands on. So, I remember that was a complaint that our, our foster, what is she named, um, our case worker, Samantha, I remember she struggled with having to communicate with Oregon so much with us.

Stacey: And maybe that's what I don't remember, that our case worker was the one that communicated with Oregon, not me. I just communicated with our New Jersey case worker.

Demi: It was like a whole different workload for her. Like, she, yeah.

Stacey: Oh, I bet. From there on out, I didn't have to do any continuing parenting classes.

I transferred my, my home. You know, certification, like I just had to check in with Sam. Um, I think we met once a month or something like that. And then we also had to continue to go to counseling. And I can't remember how many we went through, but we finally landed on a gal that it took some chipping through the ice, but that Demi was really able to open up with.

I didn't attend the sessions with her, so she was able to talk about me while she was at the sessions. Right. Rhoda was her name.

Rachel: Rhoda. Nice. God, a good [00:53:00] therapist is like, I mean, there's nothing like it, it's a lifesaver. And it's so hard to find. It's like really, it's like dating, right? Like you got to go through like a lot before you find the right therapist for you.

Yeah.

Demi: Depending on your insurance too, man. It is. Yes. Out there for therapy. 100%. And, and I feel like mental health is now becoming so, not mainstream, but like people are paying more attention to it and acknowledging it as it being like a real, like thing that you can carry all the time. Um, and yeah. But there's just not enough, you know, they go on about that all day.

Rachel: Right. Um, so, uh, did you ever end up officially adopting or did, did it just sort of like you aged out of the system and then that was it?

Stacey: Even Oregon called it permanent foster care. And Oregon used to tell me, we don't like to do the adoption proceedings for teenagers, because then they change their minds and they don't, they decide they don't wanna be adopted by that family anymore.

And so they've spent money and proceedings and time [00:54:00] on this, and then teenage kids change their mind or they ditch or whatever. And so for Oregon, it was always. you're going to be on permanent foster care. And once we got to New Jersey, I remember our case worker, Samantha, was always like, why didn't you adopt?

Why don't, why aren't you a guardian? Why, you know, why didn't you do any of this? And we're like, we don't care. We don't, we've never really needed the piece of paper. And I joked with Demi maybe a week or two ago that I was like, you know, we actually have like, no real legal connection to each other, right?

Like, you could be a stranger to me just as easily as I could call you my daughter. Like, I can't prove it.

Rachel: And do you ever feel like there's nothing there for either of you that feels like that was something that you wanted? Did it? I mean, I'm just wondering. Or you like there's something there

Stacey: I think we're the same either way.

Rachel: Oh, definitely. And I'm not, I'm not questioning that. I'm just saying like, I'm just wondering if there was anything there, maybe from Demi about like, would you want to be, or was it kind of like, no, I have a biological mom and like, I'm good. [00:55:00] And how did you

I think it was just not something I really ever thought about Stacey was just always going to be it for me.

Rachel: It didn't, we didn't need, you know, like we, we didn't need all of that stuff. We knew who we were. To each other. Right. Right. I remember when I had graduated, uh, high school for the first time ever, like she comes into my room and she's like, Hey, so, um, I, you know, met a guy who I'd already met. I had already known that they were dating.

She was like, he's moving to Florida, like, and I think I'm going to go to, and I was like, I remember looking at her, I was like, why are you telling this? Like, I can't go. Like, are you breaking up with me for the first time in a year? I was like, are you still my mom?

Stacey: You were in community college at that time, I thought.

Was it really?

Demi: No, it was, it was right. But it was in that summer. Literally, I graduated high school. I remember I'd started, it might've been like my spring semester then. Like, I might've done like a winter semester at, at Lakehead. [00:56:00] I almost said Lane County, um, at County.

Rachel: So. Wow. So what happened? Did you move, did you move to Florida and you stayed in Jersey?

Stacey: Yeah, when she was 21, I think I moved to Florida. Okay. 20, 20 or 20. And you decided you wanted to stay, but she was ready. She was ready to move out. We were getting along like pretty well. I mean, I guess if there were a story to be told through high school, it's that. We had all the typical challenges and, and I was also, I'm a little bit more old school, so I was trying to get her, like I made her get a job when she was a sophomore in high school at a shoe store because I said, if you want a car, we'll get you a car, but you have to pay the insurance and like, I was trying to teach her how to make her own doctor's appointments and like teach her how to like be able to take care of herself, but I was up against.

parents who were doing that for their kids and paying for everything. So if there was a lot of anger between us at that point, it was like, but this [00:57:00] friend's parent bought her a car and pays the insurance. And how am I supposed to work a job and get the grades you want me to in high school? And, you know, so there was a lot of just like, You're bothering me.

You're annoying kind of energy all throughout high school. And we fought a lot. Yeah. And, and, and I was also, she never wanted to bring her friends to our house because I annoyed her. So she assumed like that I was gonna not welcome her friends or be annoying to her friends. So she would always go and spend the time at her friends or boyfriend's house.

Mm hmm. And so she would spend a lot of time out of the house. And so then when she would come back, Sometimes we would do things together, sometimes we wouldn't, sometimes we would have to go shopping. Like we were, we were still very dedicated to each other and we knew that we both needed each other, but we had those high school struggles.

So by the time I had, um, you know, met someone that I was very serious about who she really liked too, like she approved of him and, [00:58:00] um, and we talked about moving. It was very natural. I mean, she jokes like you're leaving me, haha, but. I wouldn't have left if I felt like she still needed me. Yeah. But she was 20.

I mean, it was, it was 2015. That makes you 21. I didn't move till 2015. So like she was old enough to be on her own. She knew she had my support. She had a boyfriend she wanted to move in with. So like, um, to be clear, I didn't ditch her.

Rachel: I totally get it. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so let's, let's cut to today. So you're a mom now, Demi, is that correct?

How many children do you have? How old are they? What's happening with that?

Demi: Um, I have one little boy. He's going to be two in September. His name's Connor. He's amazing. He really is. He's such a whiz.

Um, and I've realized I get emotional so [00:59:00] much now. I've never liked this before. Now that I have my own kid and even hearing Stacey talk about like, The things that I said to her, I'm like, Oh goodness, like as a mom, like, geez, the heartbreak that that must feel to hear those things from your kids, you know?

So now that I have a kid, I'm realizing I'm confronted a lot with my childhood traumas. Sure. Daily. I bet.

Stacey: Yeah.

Demi: Daily and, and confusion and anger with my mother and I'm, I'm working, working through a lot of that stuff. I, I mean, I'm, I see a therapist now for it. So, um. Willingly. Yeah. It's tough. I see her every Tuesday night after Connor goes to bed, but, um,

That's great. Good for you.

Demi

Yeah. It's definitely a challenge and I'm noticing, I'm remembering a lot more about my childhood that I realized I blacked out quite a lot.

Rachel: Uh huh.

Demi: Yeah. And just confronting a lot of things that I'm like, maybe my mom felt like this. Like it just. It's, it's interesting, it's humbling, and it's just feels really [01:00:00] important.

It just,

Rachel: yeah,

Demi: it's, it's great.

Rachel: And so well said, because it's, it's so true when you become a parent, like it really, really changes perspective. It just makes you see things in such a different way. And, and regardless of how difficult this I'll speak for myself, regardless of how difficult my childhood was in some ways.

I really had a lot more understanding and compassion once I became a parent, because I was just like, this is not easy. And you have the tools you have, and that's all you have. And, you know, things were different when, when my, you know, my mom had the tools that she had, and she did the best that she could with what she had.

So I totally get that.

Demi: But I find a little bit of comfort in that is, is being like, I'm still my mother's daughter, but I parent the way Stacey parented. So that's my, my pulling back and forth too, is like, I'm biologically my mother's daughter and I have, you know, I can see sometimes, you know, getting [01:01:00] frustrated.

My mother, you know, wasn't a big explosive abusive person. She just abused drugs and stuff, which I don't do, but I can, I can, you know, I saw my mom hurt a lot. Yeah. I saw her just hurt a lot and I'm like, I'm. Um, not that I'm hurting a lot, but I'm, you know, I have maybe, you know, feelings and I'm like, maybe my mom felt like this, but then they turn around and parent the way Stacey did.

And Stacey did it so gracefully and so patient and gentle parenting, you know,

she offered different alternatives and she, you know, gave space and, and just, you know, so that's like the, the thing that I'm going through right now with, you know, going through the system and being a parent myself. It's bizarre.

It's such a trip.

Rachel: Yeah, it is. And, and like the other thing I love about it is that you get to do things again, right? Like in a different way, right? So like, You get to save your inner child. Yeah. Yeah. And like, I don't know about you, but like for me, I've been really dialoguing with, with my inner child, [01:02:00] like so much since I became a parent because that little girl is always still there.

She's there and the defiant teenager is still there. And I'm like, okay. Yeah. Yeah.

Demi: Yeah, like never felt it before. And now it's like, it feels like I'm mourning my childhood. Yeah. Healing her too.

Rachel: 100%. And that's so beautiful because you're mothering yourself. And that's amazing.

Stacey: Yes. She has really displayed a A real clear path of growth over the years, like even as the early years, the tough, the younger adolescence, like early preteens in Oregon.

Then once we moved, she kind of went through the stages of the, of the middle teen years. And then we started, I mean, 15, 16, 17 were tough. We fought a lot. We disagreed a lot. Um, we, But we, like, worked through it. We knew we were always going to be there for each other. As she got 18, 19, she [01:03:00] started, I mean, we didn't really start to get really close in the way that we are now where, like, all the fighting's really behind us.

We still annoy each other occasionally, but it's like, you're annoying, you know, like everybody does. But she's shown, like, real stages of personal growth that is continuing now to where, I mean, I can look back to when she was 12 and 13 and see like almost like a phoenix situation. Yeah. Where she, she really shed a lot of her old stuff and it's really coming into being the adult and the mom that she is now to the point that she, I, that's why I just feel like She is sort of what you hope you get out of the process of the foster care system because there was so much reluctance, so much like hesitation and then she very slowly gave in to things and accepted things, accepted love, accepted that her life could be successful [01:04:00] and accepted and positive, and she has made it into, you should, I mean, she's a phenomenal mom.

Like, she really has done such a great job with her own life. That, I mean, I can tell, really encouraging.

Rachel: I, I have to say, I, I mean, and that is like the point. That is the point of why I'm doing this is like, To let people know that, that it can be successful that, and that doesn't mean it's going to be easy.

It doesn't mean it's going to be sunshine and roses, none of that, but, but it can be, uh, I mean, love is an amazing thing. Stability is an amazing thing. What it, what you can give to a child and provide to a child will change the course of.

Demi: Yeah. And it's critical Only to, to, to introduce and practice like. religiously to do that for a child because I mean, we come into this world not knowing anything.

Rachel

That's right.

Demi

And then we make these building [01:05:00] blocks, these foundations of how we think and how we understand the world from our parents. And it doesn't matter by blood or no blood who that person is. We need a model to look after, you know, and once we get past that building block, that's, that's our foundation.

It's there. That's how we see things. And that's it. You know, a lot of

Stacey: A lot of people commented to me early on that taking her in at 13, that it could be a struggle that those building blocks, shaky as they were, were already in place for her and that we really had to get to know each other as people and that I didn't have the advantage of seeing her through her really young years.

People would say that to me and I never really accepted that. the way that it was because that's not an impossibility. Yeah, maybe it's a factor, but it's sort of like it only, it only blossoms and becomes an issue if you give it attention. And I think it was really like, yeah, I didn't know her before, but I know her now.

And she, she made [01:06:00] those steps from. A lot of leaps and bounds from the time she was a preteen and it took a lot of time and it definitely wasn't easy. There were, I had many, many why God moments, you know, but it just, it just kept happening.

Demi: If you, if you'd asked me to. You know, foster a child who's five years old.

I now would have the same exact, you know, reservations, hesitations, but you know, even raising your own children isn't easy. Right, right. Of course. I mean, it's, it's, it's not. It's not truly about what, what, what, how you feel or it's about what you can do for a child who literally has nothing against them.

Stacey: Right.

Demi: That makes sense. Like they don't have to.

Stacey: I love it that you just said that parenting is a difficult job under the best of circumstances. Absolutely. It really is. In fostering, it adds another layer. It just takes a hard [01:07:00] job and makes it maybe a little bit more, but a dedicated foster parent Who can, who can stick with it and I just remember keep thinking, we're gonna get there.

We're gonna get there. We're gonna get there. And, and, and we got there. And maybe we're the outliers and like the success story, but testimonies like that, you need to hear.

Demi: That's fine. That's what we, that's exactly true. That's right. That's what you need to hear because people get very discouraged because they hear what, you know, well, we tried this and this didn't work out because this happened.

It was really hard. And it's like, so you just stop?

Rachel: Right. Like, you know, it's, it's. Right. Exactly. We can do hard things. You know that, uh, Glennon Doyle, the podcast, like we can do hard things. I say that sometimes to myself. I say it to my daughter too. When my daughter is having a difficult time, honey, we can do hard things.

I know it's hard. We can do it. I love that. Yeah. Uh, you guys are amazing humans. You're just amazing, humans. I'm so happy.

Stacey: We just keep showing up every day, and we worked out. She's my girl.

Rachel: I'm just, I'm just

Demi: You're [01:08:00] amazing. Thank you for interviewing us.

Rachel: I'm so happy to hear your story. I think it's, it's really gonna resonate for other people.

And, uh, do you have any final words of, like, advice or thoughts or anything else that you want to share before we say goodbye?

Demi: I mean, as hard as this stuff is to talk about, I'm really glad that we can do it because I'm reminded of how far Stacey and I have come and how far our love goes. And it's a nice to, to relive it, to, you know, appreciate what it, what it takes.

And as a parent myself, you know, I struggle all the time with my kid, but, you know, just unconditional love is what's, I'm going to take it. Patience, unconditional love, it's going to be fine.

Stacey: That's right.

Rachel: That's

right.

Oh, that's beautiful.

Stacey: There were a lot of times where I wondered, you know, am I able to love her through this?

Like, if I just keep on loving, is this, is love enough going to make a difference? And for me, I think it's going to be. I always felt like it would. So I think if I had [01:09:00] anything to say, because intuition played a huge role in this whole process for me throughout, it just sort of felt like, even at the times where I was unsure and thought, like, am I really what's best for her?

Because it doesn't seem so right now. Right. My intuition would always be like, Do not give up. Do not give up. Do not give up. You can do this. And so from start to finish with me, even now, I feel very confident in her taking care of herself as an adult and like being a self sufficient, kind human being.

Like, I feel like trusting your intuition throughout the process, listening to yourself, and really believing that you can do this. You can do hard things. I love that. Yeah.

Rachel: That's a great, great note to end on. Thank you really from the bottom of my heart for, for coming on. I'm so happy to talk to you guys today.

Thank you.

Stacey: Thank you, Rachel.

Rachel: Thank you, Rachel. This has been the Foster to Forever podcast. Happy stories of non traditional families born through Foster to [01:10:00] Adopt. Produced by Aquarius Rising. Edited by Jason Sarubbi at Split Rock Studios. Original music composed by Joe Fulginiti for more information or to stay in touch, visit FromFoster2Forever.com. That's From Foster, the number two foster home. forever. com and stay connected with us on Instagram @foster2foreverpodcast. That's foster the number two forever podcast. We'll see you next time.