Days of Our Lives and Hallmark Channel star Jen Lilley is a foster-to-adopt mom and philanthropist who donates tons of her time, money and energy to championing the cause of foster youth. In this episode she takes time out of her busy filming schedule to discuss why she chose to spotlight foster care and adoption as her cause of choice.
In the episode Jen details how she and her husband decided to begin fostering and how they ultimately adopted two siblings, as well as eventually having two biological children, as well. She discusses her faith and how it helps guide her in all her decision making, and discusses being a celebrity ambassador for Childhelp.org as well as her work with Tulsa Girls Home (TulsaGirlsHome.org), relaying the magical synchronicities that led her to partner with Founder/CEO Brittany.
Jen also discusses the goal of reunification and how and why a child would be adopted when that goal isn't possible. She talks about how she managed / manages being a busy actress and foster mom/mom, and she shares about her previous work with "Christmas Is Not Cancelled" as well as her new venture with RaiseTheReel.com - a very special opportunity to become involved, help charity and filmmakers and have a walk on roll in one of her movies!
She also mentions CharityFinder.org as a great way to find legitimate charities to support, and mentions asking for an organization's 990 form https://www.irs.gov/forms-pubs/about-form-990 to see where their money is going.
Jen Lilley - The From Foster to Forever Podcast - Episode 1, Season 2
Rachel: [00:00:00] Guys, I'm so excited to introduce our first guest of season two. We're actually doing this a little bit earlier than I had planned because I had to get this in before the end of this really cool promotion that she's doing. It's called raisethereal. com. The proceeds from this go to benefit charity, and they also go to benefit filmmaking.
It's a win win situation. You could find yourself on the set of her next movie. Check it out. It's raisethereal. com. She talks about it at the end of the episode, so make sure you listen all the way through. And or visit the website, raise the real. com. You know, her from days of our lives, the Academy award winning film, the artist and every Hallmark movie under the sun.
Here she is. Actress and activist Jen Lilly. It's the Foster to Forever podcast. Happy stories of nontraditional families born through Foster to Adopt. [00:01:00] I'm your host, Rachel Fulginetti.
Hello and welcome to Jen Lilley I'm so happy to have you here. I'm so happy to be here. Thank you for having me on. This is one of my favorite parts. Subjects. So I know you were actually referred to me through a girlfriend in the business. And I know you're a very, very busy actress. So I really appreciate you taking the time to talk to me today.
Um, Yeah, I want to hear you. You're so active as, um, uh, philanthropist and person who does a lot of charity work. Um, but before we talk about that, I want to talk about your personal story because I know that you like me adopted two Children through foster care in Los Angeles. Is that correct? Yes, that's correct.
Yes. And so tell me how did you come to that? Where was foster care something [00:02:00] you were always interested in? Or how did that Come about for you.
Um, I mean always always Being since maybe I was about nine years old seven or nine years old. So almost always i've been interested in it My parents were unofficial foster parents growing up Um, and so what I mean by that is my dad was a judge and my mom was a director of a women's center and so They just weren't able to be foster parents because As you may know or in your listeners might might know but if anybody's new to foster care uh, if you are a foster parent you are called and and demanded to be unbiased and so obviously If you have a judge and a a director of a crisis pregnancy center, you know, it might look like you are uh Cheating the system and so they were not unofficial.
They were unofficial foster parents. Um, Meaning that they because they were very um charitable people. They still wanted to give back [00:03:00] to uh Kids and families who maybe just needed a help transitioning through life So we often had people living with us, um that weren't part of our family And so the whole concept of it was not scary to me um, and then in 2011 when I was on the artist I You Which was a movie, it was a silent movie in 2011 and being nominated for 10 awards and it won best picture.
And the only reason I say that is not, well, I'm very proud to be in it, but it's not like, ooh, Jim Lilley's so cool. It's just that this was a massive launch into having, you know, becoming sort of on the road to a celebrity. And so I had to pick, uh, What I really wanted to voice my opinion on Um for a long time I had been an advocate and I and I still think it's wonderful Um for the world water crisis and what that is is there are more people that die in the world every day than more aids and malaria [00:04:00] combined Um due to the lack of clean drinking water.
So I was like, oh my gosh, that's a crazy issue. It's a solvable issue Yeah Um, and so I was really lending my voice to that. And then in 2011, when I had that, I had the artist and then I had general hospital. And so I was really kind of starting to be interviewed and gaining fame. And I, I felt like a lot of, there are so many celebrities that lend their voice to the world water crisis.
So what was an issue that needed sunlight? And I realized that child abuse is a huge pandemic in our country. You know, it's an epidemic pandemic. And so I really started diving into that. Um before human trafficking was a term, you know, we were fighting against that and still am that's very related to foster care As you know, yes And so I kind of was on a trajectory of of like lending my voice for child abuse and then finding out that Hey, a lot of children that are abused are in foster care.
And so
right
Jen Lilley: and I wanted to do it My husband of course didn't want to do it, which [00:05:00] I just want to say to any listener Um, if you've been interested in fostering and you're like, I would love to do that But my spouse or my partner is so uninterested in that, you know, hold on to hope that's kind of what I have found And maybe you have found rachel.
I don't know your story, but It tends to be that 50 of the couple or the unit, you know Yes, like gung ho into the idea And so I told my husband You You're allowed to say no to foster care, but you are not allowed to say no to something when you don't know what you're saying No to So first we have to take an orientation class And of course we went to the orientation class and he realized that that absolutely was something that we needed to do And then me being the busy actress and producer.
I was like, I don't know if I have time for this. Right. That was our journey in. Yeah, they're God. There's so many things I want to say. First of all, thank you for saying that about the cut. If you're in a couple that one person might not be as on board. My husband often says that he wouldn't [00:06:00] have done it if it weren't for me sort of pushing it forward.
And I was really like, when I decide something and I just kind of like, I want to do this. And I wouldn't have done it, obviously, if he didn't want to do it, but he If he was on his own, or maybe it was somebody who didn't feel that way, he may not have done that, and he would have missed out on, like, the best thing that ever, ever, ever happened to him and to us, which is our two children.
So, I appreciate that, and that's not to say it's for everybody, but I agree with you about just taking the steps and finding out about it before you close your heart. and your mind to it. So thank you for for bringing that up. Um, of course, the next thing I want to ask you about is, uh, I'm kind of curious just that when you were when you were getting into the public eye, did your, was it that your, um, That your people were telling you you need to choose a like a [00:07:00] Something or did you feel in your heart?
Like I I have a platform I want to use it for something or was it a combo? What a great question. What a fun answer Just like yeah, so curious so I'm, like, I don't even know where to start. So i'll just start at the most fun and horrifying answer first so, um I actually when I decided to uh, the very first issue that I started to tackle was Now it's called child sexual exploitation material CSAM But at the time in 2011, it was just called child pornography The reason you don't call it child pornography anymore for anybody listening is because pornography Implies consent though.
I will tell you having worked in not not in the porn industry, but in the field of advocating
Rachel: For
Jen Lilley: people who who are in the porn industry. Most of them are actually victims A lot of them don't know that they're victims, but that's um It's just I don't know that there really is a lot of consent in [00:08:00] that business regardless But that is the reason why it's called see some Yes now because it's just we want to make sure that it's extremely clear that children are not Complicit and children do not want to be that's right in all these things.
That's right It's the same. I appreciate you saying that because it's the same with prostitution right and all of that. It's like yeah no, the If they're under 18 They're not This is not a choice. This is trafficking and it's it's important for people to understand that so thank you Yeah, of course. Yeah, so I wanted to speak about that Because I was like, wow, nobody's talking about this and uh, my publicist at the time who I swiftly fired after And I feel like the conspiracy theorist in me might might know why she said this now But at the time I had no idea she was like you cannot talk about that as an actress in hollywood We do not talk about that Pick anything else pick be be Be be a spokesperson for the aspca.
You know what I mean? Like [00:09:00] and I was like i'm not an animal person right animals. I appreciate people that are animals, but I am a children person I'm a people person.
Rachel: Yeah,
Jen Lilley: and I think that animals are awesome But like if you are telling if you are trying to compare dogs who need to be adopted to me It's severely abused in traffic children.
Yeah Who by the way at the time before the dark net came out? So what I mean by the dark net is like where these traffickers are working Before in around 2011. This is before snapchat. This is Maybe instagram was just starting to come out The internet had not really exploded social media had not really exploded.
And so at the time It was much easier to catch predators because you could find their um, ip address And I was working with an organization that that was what they were doing. They're finding the ip address And in one in three cases, which is a high odd One in three cases they were finding the victims on the property Wow.
And rescuing them out. And so I was like, I wanna lend my voice to this. Yes. So this [00:10:00] publicist was like, you cannot talk about that in Hollywood. Talk about anything else. I'm like, yeah, okay. Bye. I'm not paying you to be my publicist. Right. This needs sunlight. Other things don't need sunlight. Everybody knows there's pets that need to be adopted, you know, like, I dunno that this is going on with children.
Hundred percent. So I got involved in that, but um, how I got involved in that was not because somebody asked me, you need a platform now. Because I already had a platform. I was already like touring. lecturing college students and stuff Um, but for me I i'm just a very outspoken person of faith and I was praying about it and I've always just felt like I think that every person whether they have celebrity or not You have a sphere of influence whether it's your friends or whatever You know rachel you have this podcast like you're using your podcast to spread awareness about this Everybody has a voice and everybody has an influence.
So that has always been something that's very important to me So when I realized that I was, you know catapulting into More of a you know pseudo [00:11:00] celebrity title
I wanted
to make sure that I was using my platform wisely and I was in prayer and You And the Lord said to me, uh, it was one of the clearest moments he's ever spoke to me in my life.
He goes, you need to go, you need to research what's going on in your own neighborhood. And I was like, what do you mean? So it was this interesting journey that night. And I was on charity navigator. org, which I really recommend. It's how you find out if charities are good. Cause PSA guys, anybody that's listening, not all charities are good.
A lot of them are scams. A lot of them, there's something called a nine 90 form. It's the form that 501 C threes, which is the charity filing form. They need to fill that out for the IRS. And you can. Why are any charity that wants you to donate to them? You can ask them for their 990 and I do because i'm like I want to know how much your employees are getting paid And I also want to know how much um, where's your money going?
Like is it going toward the program? Is it going toward like private jets? Like what are we doing? Right, right, right. Yes agreed agreed That issue and got heavily involved in them [00:12:00] And then the publicist was like maybe you should work with child help Which is the longest running and largest non profit against child abuse and neglect They are 1 800 for a child the child abuse phone hotline They rescued over 12 million us children since they started 60 years ago, and they're just incredible.
They're the real deal So I became a celebrity ambassador for them and then we became mentors and then we wanted to foster our mentee Which did not happen, but she has a really great Ending to her story. I'm still in touch, but that's how we started fostering. Oh amazing Okay, and then so from there because you were into it, uh, you were doing all this activism Did you and then you you felt like listen, I want to actually open my heart my home to You To do this for real like to do a a fostering slash possibly foster adopt Um, is that the progression?
Yes, sort of I mean, I always kind of wanted to foster because of my parents, right? My husband's progression was you know child [00:13:00] health has or they used to have a village in california, but That got shut down large in part. Thanks to paris hilton who Whatever I agree with her argument, but it was you can't just Try to shut down all organizations when one organization is bad.
I don't believe in like blanket policies And so unfortunately child health was the most successful Program in the united states their california village got Shut down when I say village what they had and they still have one in tennessee Actually, I don't know if they have one in tennessee I know they have one in virginia, which is my home state and then uh, They might still have one in tennessee, but they they do national advocacy work But specifically so you understand the parameters of this they used to in california have These therapeutic cottages where children would live and these are the most Child health takes on the most severe cases.
So you have like your gabriel hernandez who died but had gabriel not [00:14:00] died That's a very famous case You have children no joke that like are nine years old and they don't know they're not a dog They've lived in a crate their whole life They've never been taught to speak. They don't know how to toilet themselves.
They don't know how to eat Like they don't know how to talk These are the children that sometimes often go to child help because okay It's basically the last stop that the government's like we don't know what else to do with them And and they can either go to a mental institution Or they can go to child health, which actually is a mental institution, but it's in a therapeutic setting
So
they have like home moms.
They get every form of therapy. I mean they do occupational therapy speech therapy health and nutrition therapy Reading they catch them up on their schooling. They I mean You named the type of therapy. I didn't even know there were this many kinds of therapy My point in saying this is that if a child lives at a child help village now some of them You Very rare there.
I want to preface that there's a small percent of children where their parents just don't know what to do And they they [00:15:00] turn their children in for therapy because they're like this child needs help I cannot give them that is not usually what child help is for but that is available So I don't want to blanket say every child that's ever been at a child help You know facility because that's not what i'm about to say is not necessarily an across the board but in general Overwhelmingly, so in general If a child is at child health therapeutic village that child should never be reunified with their parents
Rachel: Um
Jen Lilley: If you're listening to this podcast and I hope that you are, uh, You know The goal of foster care is not adoption.
The goal of foster care is to put that child back with the family The goal is called reunification split them apart put them back together That is the goal across the board that you are going to always be parallel planning. They call it in the court system So you have a a goal and it's there's a line if you're watching on video i'm Holding my arm out.
There's a line. The goal is reunify that child with the family. The [00:16:00] parallel goal Is adoption or permanent placement for that child so that they have stability I would argue very heavily very strongly that if a child was a child help here She should never be reunified with their parent So there was a child that we mentored and she was facing reunification which meant eminent death to her Her mother had made it very clear to her that she would murder her
The minute she got our back.
Wow. She told her exactly how she was gonna do it, you know So she was really scared and when she opened up my husband was the one that we were driving back to la and he was like white knuckling the steering wheel and he was like when we get home, we are taking those foster care classes, so We got into foster care because of her But we did not get into foster care to adopt which is so funny because now I have four children and it's just funny
because I laugh because it's like what an idiot I was going in thinking that like, oh you'll just Love these children Give them back, you know [00:17:00]
Jen Lilley: I'll i'll i'll go to europe.
I'll grieve i'll go on a nice vacation and sleep again And then when my heart has healed i'll open up my home and foster again now that is possible You know, I don't know about the vacation part, but like a lot of people just foster right? Um, so my goal is not adoption. My goal is just to foster and right and then wrap myself around that whole family Um, obviously i'm extremely glad That we were able to adopt our two sons through foster care When you adopt through foster care, there's one of two ways to do it Uh all kind of take the same route, but here's the two approaches The first is you foster that child with the goal of reunification And in 29 percent of cases at least that was the statistic four years ago So this is a four year old statistic, but I I imagine it's hovers around the same rate in a roughly 29 percent of the cases You have a child that gets what's called tpr which stands for termination of parental rights [00:18:00] And that is when the court has exhausted the process of reunifying that child so Almost all 50 states have a reunification process that looks something like this the child is placed into foster care Hopefully they live in a home Hopefully live in a stable home.
That's obviously not the case. There's a lot of if you've ever heard about foster care a common conception of it is that uh You know, there are households foster homes and a lot of them aren't like they're either amazing places or they're households. So the child is placed into foster care and then he or she is going to Start doing you usually monitored visits meaning a social worker the foster parent him or herself Or somebody is monitoring That visit writing reports making sure that the parent is showing up isn't high Isn't saying inappropriate things to the child all this kind of business once that goes very well Then they're going to be glorified babysitters the parent and that child's going to spend some unmonitored visit Maybe two hours at a time if that goes well The next stage of reunification [00:19:00] would be maybe the child's spending the weekend with that parent Maybe the child's doing an overnight if that goes well, you keep progressing until you reunify You Um, if that parent ever makes progress and he or she is getting worse and worse and worse is not doing their caseload is Back on drugs is not showing up all of these sort of things then what will happen is after a series of usually in six month increments um the child the court will decide that that parent is No longer worthy of being a parent and they will do something called termination of parental rights.
It is not willy nilly It's a very serious thing. Um, we actually have a ton of parental rights in this country and I just think even if you're not in foster care, you should know that as a parent you have a lot of rights so moms and dads I just want to say like speak up in your school board and be an active parent because there's very little they can do to You if you're a parent So you have these like abusive parents and you can't even tell them they're not allowed to be parents So we do have a lot of parent parental rights and i'm very grateful for that in this nation Um, but once [00:20:00] termination of parental rights has happened The next place in parallel planning would be adoption If you do not want to adopt you can just continue to foster that child I think in all 50 states i'm not 100 certain, but I believe in all 50 states Um, you know, you get a stipend every month for foster care.
That's true Uh, but there's another program called the adoption assistance program that still exists So we still get a stipend for our kids and it's amazing. We put it into an account for them. It's earning interest They don't know about you know, fantastic. Yeah, so grateful for that. They come with health insurance.
I am so grateful for that That's right. I'm like if any of you are going to crack your head and crack your heads open It better be the boys because it's free. Yeah and and Just in case the listeners don't know, she's talking about Medicare, right? Is it Medicare or Medicaid? I always get them confused.
You know, I'm not sure either because they come with an insurance policy that is unsubsidized, but it's basically like, the boys get health insurance for free. Like, I do not pay for them. Until they're 18. 18 or 24. It [00:21:00] depends on the state that you live in. Okay Yeah, I used to assume people didn't adopt because they couldn't afford to adopt right, you know, but that's not actually true I don't really know why people don't adopt.
Uh, that's a question. I haven't through foster care Well adoption is a totally different thing. I can tell you why I mean, I think or I mean I can't tell you i'm sure there's a lot of different reasons, but I think fear is a is a huge part of it. I think that there is um And the fears are multiple fears.
It's fear of the unknown. It's fear that you don't know if you're going to be able to keep the child. So you put everything you have, your heart and your soul into it. And I had this fear going in, like terrible, terrible fear, and of having my heart broken. And so I think that that's a big one. And then I also think a lot of people are really afraid of, well, you don't know what you're going to get, which I think is ironic because Even if you have biological children, you don't know quote unquote what you're going to get But I think a lot of people are afraid of like drug [00:22:00] exposure and and there's a lot of yeah, that's for sure That's the reason people don't foster But what i'm asking is do you know why people don't adopt from foster like from like if they are already a foster?
Ah, gotcha. Gotcha. So what i'm saying is there's there's a and the other path is there's adoption through foster care So there are kids Now and this is when people wouldn't adopt from foster care sometimes because there are kids that already had tpr So they've already had termination of parental rights There's over a hundred thousand of them in the country And they are available for adoption right now.
You can go and adopt them I do recommend that you foster them first for the exact reasons that rachel just mentioned, right? But what i'm saying rachel is I don't understand why if people have fostered that child for years Yes, I agree their first placement And then the child gets tpr What would stop those people from then adopting the child and giving the child permanency?
And that's I don't understand that I that I don't either and I think that it it might be I i've heard some people say [00:23:00] that they just didn't ever want to be like parents forever. Like they didn't want to Oh, and and I actually it's funny because I I interviewed somebody. Um recently who was saying they went into it um And they wanted to just emergency foster care like they didn't want to they're like, I don't ever want to be a full time parent.
But then, you know, they fell in love and then that was it. And now they're a family. So, yeah, but I do think that maybe some people feel like, Oh, I don't necessarily want to do this forever. I just want to do it. You know, yeah for now, that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah, but I I personally couldn't do that. You obviously couldn't do that Um, yeah, I couldn't do that I couldn't do that But you know listen it would be better though to keep that child and give that child permanency until he or she aged out At least so I wouldn't Say that if you don't want to adopt, like, just keep fostering that, like, we would appreciate that because every time a child switches homes, they experience trauma.
Yes. Um, so [00:24:00] yes. And I, I'm also curious, are you involved at all with, um, children who are aging out of the system? Do you know much about that? Because that is a, that's something that just really breaks my heart. If they never have, they never get adopted. They never, they go through the whole entire system.
And then What happens at is it 18 or is it 21 now that they're That they stop being sort of cared for It depends on the state So state by state and I believe possibly even county by county Have different laws that dictate whether it's 18 or 21 traditionally A child is going to age out of foster care at 18 and I I think I could be very wrong.
I slightly recall that in order for 21 to be in play It has to be because a foster parent agrees to continue to foster them till 21 in which case The government will make an exception saying we will continue [00:25:00] the stipend and the insurance until that kid is 21 But that is probably rare and far between so in general we're looking at 18 here, which you know, listen I was an incredibly responsible 18 year old.
I did my own laundry. I knew how to cook. I drove. I was just like the sober friends that drove everybody. Like I could have been a mom at 18. Nope. You know, like, well, problem because mom being a mom is hard, but I could have done it, you know, extremely responsible 18 year old. Yes. And at the same time, I would not have want to have been on my own at 18.
Right. That's insane. It's crazy. It's an insane idea. So yes, I'm extremely involved. And that is very much where my heart is. When my kids are older I do plan on um, do be Much more actively in my own home fostering teens that are aging out of foster care. They call these Transitional aged youth in the meantime, my husband and I did bring in a tay during the pandemic which was hilarious uh, it's just an experience because she uh [00:26:00] She was gonna she was gonna face homelessness So she didn't find a home and I met her right before the pandemic started.
Of course, none of us knew, you know And so it was like she moved in and like a week later. It was like two weeks to stop the spread So it was a pretty rude awakening for all of us to be like, hey family team meeting Like what kind of toilet paper do you like, you know? Family team meeting all the adults might have to like start, you know Giving up a meal because we have no idea like, you know, we were it was so funny But we ended up doing it Not fostering her but opening our home to this girl named shanae.
She was amazing Uh, and I learned a lot from her but so I have had it to transition age youth in my home Uh, it was not officially foster care because she aged out and and we just met her at a um I like a gala event basically, uh, and she was on a panel and she was like facing homelessness and My husband turned to me and was like we have to do something and i'm so excited because i'm like you rachel like Once I make up my mind.
Yeah, i'm gonna do it But my husband's definitely the emergency brake because i'm like [00:27:00] pedal to the metal, you know And so when he said he wanted to help her that was an incredible experience. That was my first experience working with transition age youth um personally and then
Rachel: You
Jen Lilley: I also helped open and start the Tulsa Girls Home, which is thriving in Tulsa, Oklahoma.
I'm actually going out there tomorrow and they are doing just, uh, Yes, I want to hear. Tell us, tell me all about it. What, tell me, tell me about that organization and your involvement in it. It's so amazing. Um, first of all the ceo the woman who Started it and founded it has become one of my best friends over the years, but fun story I met her on instagram and I have to tell you the story of how we met so magical so It was 2018.
I know because it was the year we got jeffrey my son jeffrey and um, I was You know as a celebrity, I think everybody has to have like instagram [00:28:00] But I just I really don't like social media And I was having one of those social media burnouts where I was like, I hate this. I would never do this It feels very vapid.
It feels very like look at me. Look at me. Look at me I just hated it But I knew I needed to have it. So I was taking this instagram course on like basically how to like survive instagram
Rachel: And so I
Jen Lilley: remember this girl that I was taking the course from said you got to find your tribe on instagram So I was like fine if i'm gonna stay on this hellhole of social media That I am gonna find like minded foster moms because I can't I can't like keep doing this life the same way.
I don't care about makeup Yeah hair or like diet like that. I don't care. I don't care and my thank god for my husband I'm an actress because I don't know how savage I would look if I was on camera I mean like I just don't care about that kind
Rachel: of stuff
Jen Lilley: I care about making an impact and helping people so i'm scrolling like You I don't know, half hour scrolling with my thumb like we do.
I don't remember what they call it. Like death scrolling. I'm death scrolling. [00:29:00] Doom scrolling. Yeah. Doom scrolling. Doom Scrolling. . The hashtag foster love. Hashtag foster love. Mm-hmm . I don't know how many posts I had. Just kept doom scrolling. Like, like rapid fire. And I saw this photo. And it wasn't even that special and I stopped on it I rolled back up because like my brain registered it after I saw it I clicked on the profile as my friend now now my one of my best friends britney And she was just holding this infant looking at this infant and it and I was like, oh, okay She's a foster mom cool.
And then it said founder of project orphans and I was like cool. What is this? So I went down the website of project orphans dot org found out all about this amazing system that she's created in uvanda You Where as like a 19 to 22 year old girl, this girl is like fireworks. She is like 10 years younger than me I'm 40.
She's like 30 years old and she has already She runs foster care now. Oh, that's amazing. It's absolutely incredible and it was because she went in and she was like wait You don't actually have an orphan crisis what you have in uganda and africa most of the [00:30:00] time Is that you have these parents who can't afford to have their kids?
And so they prefer that like, you know wealthy people just go and adopt their kids or they turn them into like an orphanage because they're like I don't have the ability to shelter clothe and feed my children So i'll just give you my child because I care about my child so much You know that I would rather my child like have a chance at life britney's like that's stupid Why don't instead we like train these parents to have jobs?
We'll build a school for the kids We'll create a daycare. We'll create a medical center blah blah blah blah blah Why don't we just get this community together and you know support the village and so that's what they do. And so I met her This is the funniest way. I dm'd her i'm on instagram. I dm her and i'm like, hey You I know you're not going to make me believe it, but this is generally, you can check my profile.
Like I'm a verified Jack. I'm from Hallmark channel and days of our lives and I'm a foster mom. And like, I found you on here and I see that you live in Tulsa, Oklahoma, and I'm [00:31:00] actually about to go do a movie in August. Um, and you know, in, in Guthrie, Oklahoma, like it's like Oklahoma city. And I said, and I, I know exactly like this was, I know verbatim, like, and I never remember dates because my mom's birthday, I said, I have one day free on sunday august 19th I'm gonna be in tulsa because there's a church where I run a visit in tulsa And I I know this is like crazy, but seriously like please go check out who I am I would love to take you to coffee Like I just want to meet another foster mom if I can help you with project orphans or anything Like I would just be happy to lend my voice.
I just really want to get to know you She never checks her dms, especially from strangers, right? You know, there's a different profile. That's right You Yeah, she happens to check the message right as it came in. Well, I almost want to say like no s you know, like no She never watches hallmark channel Like she thinks they're the cheesiest movies because they are and we love them for it He was home Sick with the [00:32:00] flu and she was watching my movie for the very first time.
She was watching hallmark channel She was watching me. She checks the dm She says to her husband. I just got a dm from this chick and he oh my god way It's probably like ai something creepy like you're being right She checks her calendar She's got all these things uganda. She's gonna be back and forth from uganda She also has four children.
She runs like marketing for all these other companies at the time And she the only free date she had was sunday august 19th Wow. She's like, I want to go have coffee with this girl, and her husband's like, you're gonna get murdered, and my husband's like, you're gonna get murdered, you know? So we were like, not in a public place, it'll be fine.
And so we met, shared our hearts, shared our visions for what we wanted to do for the United States. I was like, I want to create the same thing that you're doing in the United, in Uganda, in the United States. Yes. And she's like no I will never work with the u. s You think uganda's corrupt wait till you work with the united states?
Like I will not wow. She's like a foster parent as well And i'm like, okay So for [00:33:00] years I was like i'm not doing it unless you're doing it because you're the only person I know that is like Anointed for that job like I don't know how you go into uganda As like a young girl who's not even graduated college right and do what you've done You have to be the one you are the one you're moses.
I'll be your miriam I'll be your erin. I will hold up the staff with you sister, but you are the anointed one That's got to go in and like set these people free So she's like no no, no, no, no. No, it's never gonna happen. Never gonna happen for years. Of course, we become friends and then um two so then during the pandemic I like we're all two weeks to stop the spread I was releasing my music album and 100 of my music profits goes toward charity Which is why I never signed with a major record label had an amazing opportunity to sign with a major record label And I was like no mine's gonna go toward charity and actually like I realized what the touring schedule was I was like, I want to stay married with kids.
So Like the light I can't do that light. I can't balance right, right So I decided to release my album [00:34:00] independently and I decided to do it through this You Worldwide talent contest that I hosted and created called Voices That Give where people could be, you know, win a walk on role in one of my movies and they could do all these cool things.
Yeah. And 100 percent of the profits was going to go toward building this village in the United States. And so the the project did great and um, we didn't make a profit but I had set aside This is so crazy. I had set aside. I created a it's called a donor advised fund where you basically can put your money into a charitable fund Where it has to go to a charity, but like you just until you set it aside So there's a charitable donation, but I can never no longer ever spend it.
It has to go through
Rachel: Okay,
Jen Lilley: I put in forty thousand and two hundred dollars into that account this is 2020 Years go by 20. Well, I guess it was 2021 september of 2021 In fact, it was the very first week of september 2021 probably like september 4th. Okay, [00:35:00] i'm in Canada doing my first movie for great american family.
I'm quarantined And i'm in quarantine and I get this call and it's like all these crazy people like military leaders I need people that have no business calling me. We're on this massive conference call All these like very famous leaders. I don't even know how I got ripped into this call And they're like, Hey, we have all these Syrian refugees, this isn't Syria, the issue is Syria.
And they're like, we have all these Syrian refugees going on, like you, we've gotten your number. You're going to be one of the people on the team that's going to like bring these Syrian refugee babies in. And so I'm like, I'll like, I'll help you any way that I can. I get off the phone, I prostrate on the ground, I'm like bawling my eyes out before the Lord.
And when I'm in quarantine, I would like fast and pray. And so I said to the Lord, Lord, I have this 40, 000 set aside, do you want me to give it to the Syrian babies? Like, this is so upsetting. And he said no it's for the neighborhood. It's for like your neighborhood model like what she's going to do in the united
Rachel: states
Jen Lilley: And I remember kind of almost yelling at him.
I was like what neighborhood [00:36:00] model like it's never going to happen Brittany told me it's never going to happen And he's like do you trust me and i'm like yes, but like fine and he goes he goes I I will take care of these babies, but that money is set aside for this neighborhood and i'm like fine So I go to bed the next day Brittany calls me she facetimes me and she's like If you ever meet britney, you got to interview her.
She's like, okay, honey. She's the sassiest most hilarious amazing person I I she always gets mad at me when I when i'm with her because I just start crying because i'm like Can't believe we get to be friends like she's so
amazing Yeah, I really would love to meet her. I
Jen Lilley: mean, she is just the most amazing person you ever met She calls me, she's facetiming me, she's mad, and she's like, mad, but like, righteously angry, she's like, alright, she's facetiming me, and she's like, I'm gonna do your stupid neighborhood model.
I don't know how I'm gonna do it. She goes, but the lord told me last night, like, alright, Brittany, like, we're doing this. What? She goes, and I yelled at him last night. And she goes, I [00:37:00] need $40,000. Get outta here I 40,000 to buy this house. How am I supposed to do it? And she said to her, I have 40,000 set aside that you dunno about.
She goes, so if you know anybody that has 40,000, meanwhile I'm just bawling my out. Said, I said, I'm gonna get, I said, are you serious right now? I said, I'm gonna get on the computer right now. I emailed my financial advisor. I was like, I'm gonna, what email do you want me like Brittany at? At project orphans org?
Yeah. I'm writing the email. She's on the phone. I was like, Hey, this is like, here's Brittany, Brittany, meet Doug, Doug, Brittany, Brittany, we're going to transfer all that money is going to her, however she says it, it's going to her, you know, thing. And she goes, I said, well, actually it's 40, 200. She was like, actually, I need 40, 200.
Get out of here because she had just looked at a house and that was the first house that we bought What so that's how the tulsa girl's home came about Oh, that's amazing. It was a totally a god thing and he's been behind it and now we have expanded We have another host house [00:38:00] and we're building townhomes right now for youth aging out of foster care And so they have to like hold a job.
I mean they do financial responsibility courses. They hold a job. They're drug free I mean, but It's so sad because the work that we're doing at Tulsa Girls Home, and it's really Brittany, like, I don't live in Tulsa, so I just want to, like, show Honor where Honor is due. It's her and her team. I'm so honored to be part of it.
I'm so honored to financially partner with them because, yeah, it's like these girls leave the home and they beg to come back. And I don't know a group home in the United States. Where people beg to come back like that is not the goal
Rachel: The
Jen Lilley: group home is like it's so much Worse than like a family situation where you have like a family unit.
That is what your goal is for these children But when you run a group home so well that it feels more like a stable family than stable families Then you're doing it right. And that is why I was like, I'm not doing this. And I told the Lord that I was like, I'm not doing this without Brittany. And she told me she's never going to do it.
So I don't know what your plan is, [00:39:00] you know, but she's the only person I would ever partner with because she has so much integrity and that's not really amazing. So it's called Tulsa girls, home. com org. It's a org. Okay. It's a org. It's a 501c3. Sure. It's just incredible. So, and I'll, I'll put the link for sure in the, in the show notes and, uh, that's an incredible, incredible story.
It really sounds like you, uh, your, your faith leads you, obviously. And, um, And I think do you think that that's a necessary ingredient for this kind of work Or do you think it's just a helpful ingredient for this kind of work? I think it's pivotal, but I know there are people that do it without faith and my thing is like I don't know how they do it I couldn't do it.
Yeah, let me let me ask you another question getting back to your story with your children. Um, So how [00:40:00] how old are your kids now? You said you have four. You adopted two. Yes. And they might start hearing them in the background. Okay. There are two, five, six and eight. Two, five, six and eight. Wow. That is a that's a fun household.
That's a boisterous household. Oh my god Wow And are they are the two that you adopted are they um siblings like are they related or no? Yes, same biological mom. Okay Okay, and are you in touch with the biological mom still like do you have a relationship with her? Okay, I do. Okay. Yeah, and I I know that's not possible for everybody, but I I think it's You It's just my heart.
My heart is to, you know, cheerlead her to make better choices and, you know, let her know that this all turned out how it's supposed to turn out. And that doesn't mean that, like, she's gonna be, never be allowed to be a mom ever again. Like, [00:41:00] she'll be a great mom one day if she can get it together. Right.
Yeah, right, right, right. Yeah, that's a, that's a, um, sometimes the other, like the biological mom doesn't want that relationship or can't stand to have that relationship. They, the boys don't have a relationship with her. They know about her and I've, I've told her, um, I've told her love you they know about you.
Um, but I just know a lot of studies I read a lot of people i've talked to personally I don't I want them to be that short that to be their choice Uh when they're adults and preferably when they're not teenagers Um, so I told her I was like, you know, and and because I know my children Jeff will want a relationship and Caden will not.
And I told her that too, like, just brace your heart, you know? And are they the six and eight year olds, the six and eight year olds? So, okay. So you, did you intend to have biological [00:42:00] children also? Or how, how did that. Uh, no, my husband and I never wanted to be parents. You didn't want to be parents at all.
We were like, oh, we'll foster, we'll do our part, we'll foster, we'll, we'll, we'll love these kids back and we'll love their families back and then, you know, we'll go through our grieving and move on, you know, go to Europe. Yeah, go to Europe
Rachel: and have fun,
Jen Lilley: you know, and then don't again sometime. Right. So, um, once we realized that we were adopting Kayden and we were so, so glad, I mean, like, we were Foster care is is it's the most incredible transformative experience.
I'm sure you agree rachel. Absolutely about it Yeah, but it's it's also not for the faint of heart And I and yeah, and so I so it's such an honor and Relief to me that we were able to adopt our sons because the reality is like they would not be alive right now How do we not been able to adopt them?
There's just no way they would have survived. Um So it's not lost on me. But once we realized that we were definitely adopting kate [00:43:00] and we're so relieved about it I literally was i'm extremely a type which is why i'm like getting back into producing because i'm like Okay, now that i've like established myself as an actress.
I can let people know how nerdily organized I am Yes behind closed doors and i'm like dead and i'm on my phone and i'm looking at my like ovulation I was like, if we have sex right now, you will probably get pregnant with a girl because there's this whole like, I can't remember what the guy's name is minor or something like there's some like, okay, there's some doctor you can like basically know like at conception, like, If you're gonna have a girl or a boy there's like a whole theory So if we and I was looking at my filming schedule for the next like four months And I was like we're gonna be in the boy window for the next four months So I know it was a little earlier than we were planning But if we have sex right now, we'll probably get pregnant with a girl And so we did and and we got pregnant right out the gate.
So, um, which I also want to recognize I know that is not a lot of people's journey But I knew I was so fertile I was like on five forms of birth control at all times [00:44:00] and wow Decided to have a you know, right so we we got pregnant with julie before when we were still just fostering But we knew it was going to be adopted So we knew we were in for this parenting journey for life anyway, right and then we knew I'm, like when was julie born?
Okay, we had jeff. Yeah, we already had jeff. Our son jeff was already in our home Um Yeah, and so then we just knew that if Caden was going to get adopted It was probably likely that we would adopt Jeff too, but we knew right there So and then my daughter Jackie is too. It was a major surprise Okay blessing but she was definitely a surprise that we didn't know we needed so oh, that's so sweet.
I love it I love hearing how it all ends up working out. Yeah Um, so how do you manage being an actress? Especially in the fostering when when there's so many meetings and appointments and things you have to do But you're on location for this movie and then you're how how did you manage that? [00:45:00] Is your husband's like is does he work from home or how did you?
Yeah, i'm, just curious how you put that together great questions. Yeah, so so at the time Um, he was working night shift for frito lay So he would work night shift and then he was home a lot during the day now he had to sleep But We kind of were able to tag team and then we did daycare, you know, like the kids have always kind of been in daycare Um ones that I really like and approved a lot of well, actually the ones that the boys did was home care so it was like a woman who was a grandmother who we loved who like made all their food and Like loved on them and so they did daycare during the day.
Um, So my husband could rest but then we did family dinner, but when I would go on location Um Trying to remember fully how we did it. Oh my parents would like fly out A lot of times my parents would fly out. We would get help Yeah, and then we would just kind of just do it because Filming takes place. I did leave days of our lives so that I could foster and be a parent [00:46:00] Um, so I was no longer like on a consistent filming basis So that I could balance it and that was your choice that you were just like I can't do this and yeah Yeah, I loved days.
It's still my favorite character i've ever played was theresa donovan Bones Um, it's different than being on a primetime show because a primetime show You you're still only shooting like max 22 episodes a year, which sounds like a lot But you're looking at like 22 to 24 weeks, which in a year, that's like six months.
It's just It's still a lot, but it's not an episode every day. That's what you shoot, you know, on a soap. With a soap, yeah. So it's just a lot. I just knew I couldn't do both. Right. So, yeah, this was my choice. Oh, that's really great. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And do your kids ever get to come with you on location, or how does that work?
No, no they don't. Is it too, like, that would just be like a shit show? Yeah, it is. It's like too crazy because when you shoot like these Christmas movies or these movies [00:47:00] that I do, you're looking at like two to three weeks of filming and you are working between 12 to 16 hours a day. Plus, you have to memorize, plus you have to shower and, you know, show up with your hair clean the next morning.
So you're looking at about 16 hour days on average, um, so you really don't have time to be a mom and, and you are having to like throw yourself into memorizing and being on set and. Yep. There's a whole thing of like being on set and not just knowing your lines. You have to know like where the cameras are You have to know your lighting, you know your mark and you want to be like present for everybody So my kids do not come to set.
Um, there have been times where they they could have Uh, but one thing I actually very much appreciate I hate it and appreciate it about my husband at the same time Is that he is such he's he loves people, you know I mean we took in like a youth that was going to age out like he's a very compassionate person But he is also a reckless like that man is like his dream day is just being home like We went to turks and cacos this summer and it was [00:48:00] not cheap with britney with britney and her family All right, we're gonna go with britney and her kids.
My kids her kids are a little bit older We're We'll go on a tropical vacation with our best friends, their kids will play with our kids, this will be great. My husband hated it. I left him home for two days. I was like don't even come britney And I will handle the kids at the beach like he's right. He loves being home So yeah, he doesn't want to be on set either and the kids would hate it because i'm gone 16 hours And right.
Yeah, nothing to do like he's not going to go take them to the park, you know, right? We're sitting inside Oh, that's funny. And I'm sure that even though you miss them, I'm, I'm sure that you, it also feels really good in a way to also be out and like you, you have your career and you have, you know, I mean, yeah.
This is the secret to getting it all done. Like, I have two books coming out next year and people are
like,
how are you having time to write? I'm like, yeah. When I'm filming, I have like weekends. I drink coffee and I just write for 20 [00:49:00] hours. Right. You know, right. Yeah Yeah, absolutely. That's so cool. I have a voice over an audio book career and I would be I love my career.
I love my kids and I love being a mom, but I also really love to work. Me too. So yeah Yeah. It's good to be able to find a way to do that. Tell me about Christmas is not canceled and or what you're doing now. Um, instead, of course. Thanks so much for asking. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because Christmas is coming up.
Sister it is. Um, So i'm so many trees up already and i'm buying more. I just I love christmas My brother my older brother was making fun of me today He was like you and mom like and I was like it's also because i'm in a thousand christmas movies and i'm like Inspired by the decor. Yes all the time.
Wait, I had I have to ask were you a christmas person before that or Is it because you were in all these movies and by the way, I have friends who are [00:50:00] like insane hallmark People my old babysitter. My first nanny is like, that's all she watches and she is going to die that you're on this show And one of my best friends too is like she just loves loves loves hallmark So I I think it's yeah, it's so adorable.
Like it makes me It's so adorable thing to be part of so i'm really happy to be part of it and I just love the fans. There's so many times where people are like People judge christmas movies and stuff right like very serious actors, you know And i'm like And the industry sometimes does but that they are coming up in the ranks and the thing with the christmas movies is When I go to these conventions like christmas con I cannot tell you how many people in my lines because it's like comic con There's like hundreds and hundreds of not thousands of people in your lines I can't tell you what the percentage the overwhelming majority of people will say Your movie blah blah blah.
Mm hmm
Jen Lilley: I lost my dad or I lost my mom or I lost my sister or something just like yes unbelievably [00:51:00] devastating or they got a cancer diagnosis or something and they're like it was the worst holiday season of my life and the only 90 minutes that I didn't cry. Was when I was watching your movie and I'm like, I will do a thousand of these.
I will do these till I Stop me because I'm just too old, you know, oh, that's beautiful. I do love being in them I was always a christmas person, but I get You're on these like magical sets where everything looks perfect. And I was telling my husband today. I was like, you know, sometimes And he's like, oh god, i'm like, you know, sometimes they have like wreaths on every cabinet in the kitchen like we could buy it and He's like, oh my god, like it's so it has made me overboard, right?
Um
Okay, what was the
Jen Lilley: question? But the question is about the Let's just talk about christmas, uh christmas is not canceled. Yes So after
Rachel: I
Jen Lilley: did voices that give which raised the money for tulsa girls home Um, I
Rachel: did
Jen Lilley: a podcast That fall the cdc as you remember in the pandemic we all lived through it They were canceling everything.
I mean culture people were getting [00:52:00] canceled flights were getting canceled holidays We're getting canceled. Everybody's getting canceled Yes, and so my my business partner and I at the time was she was just a friend at the time She we were on the phone just talking it. Oh my gosh. Did you see the cdc canceled thanksgiving and it was like If you remember I don't know what it was like but in california, it was like, you know, it's it's open.
It's closed It's open. It's closed. It's canceled. It's not canceled. We were like, oh my gosh, like what god lord. Okay Thanksgiving's canceled again. So we made the joke to each other. Well, they better not cancel christmas and then And I bought the website, you know christmas is not canceled And about 30 seconds later.
We had this very sobering thought that like oh my gosh, so all these parents Who have put on a brave face like this whole year are not going to be able to buy christmas gifts for these kids And then these kids are going to think they're bad kids
Rachel: Yeah,
Jen Lilley: they're gonna think they're on santa's naughty list.
They're not. Yeah, right. And so what are we gonna do about it? So we created this amazing campaign. It was supposed to be a one time campaign. It was called christmas is not cancelled We partnered with toys for tots an amazing organization. Great great 990 [00:53:00] and uh, they we raised 10 380 toys, uh through that with them fans rallied we gave the fans like dream christmas experiences And um after that first campaign we ended up You Starting a company that ran for three and a half years.
It was called christmas is not cancelled
Rachel: And
Jen Lilley: in the time of its existence, we just shut it down this year. Um It was a very profitable business It was a very wonderful business, but it was taking over our lives and there was just a lot going on behind closed doors we had like a competitor that Lived and died to make sure we didn't exist.
That was very disappointing Took all of our sponsors. I mean we had like a real life cringe situation happening We just kept trying to kind of Rally and regroup and be like, okay, maybe we'll pivot the company this way. Maybe we'll do it this way. And it was kind of like, we just kept hitting closed doors.
And so I think that when you keep rallying and you keep hitting closed doors Sometimes that's a sign that like it's [00:54:00] had its season. So we were like, right let's end on a high We it started as a one time campaign and in the end we ended up getting we had a over 3. 2 million dollar impact We helped almost 100, 000 families have christmas and then the summers we would do backpacks filled with school supplies for children and foster care So that was all good and great It was sad, you know that it had to end but it was so like we ended on a high like we ended on this great note of like let's be so proud of what we've accomplished together.
Yep. I thought I was done with that and then what happened was and I am you know, whatever I thought I was just gonna take a break slow down for a second. I started producing films again and I'm in these production meetings. And I was like, all right, tell me how films are financed and i'm in these two production meetings and I was like Well, this is the stupidest most fiscally irresponsible thing again Like I said very organized and i'm like show me your 990 now a film is not a non profit They don't have a 990 right but but what i'm saying is as a human I am incredibly [00:55:00] militant on how you're spending your money I budget I stick to my budget and if you can freaking save money if there's a coupon for it I don't care how much money i'm making You Why not use the freaking coupon you ding dong, you know what I mean?
Like there's a better way to do this So i'm sitting in these meetings and I was like, I bet I could fundraise for a film better And I was like what how fun would it be if you gave fans like your friends the opportunity to be in my next christmas movie Or to be in the movies that they love great idea support the film it benefits charity at the same time We always partner with a charity 10 of every package goes back to an awesome charity Whose 990 has been heavily investigated You know, yeah, we can give fans the opportunity to not only Be in the movie like They can be producers.
They can get their name in the credits. They can walk the red carpet with me They can get a speaking. Wow, they can do all these fun things They support the independent filmmakers and at the same time they're benefiting charity and at the same time [00:56:00] Not only can they guarantee themselves a spot in one of my movies or whatever movie we're going to end up supporting for this company It's called raise the real r e e l like a real on instagram or yes Yeah, raise the real dot com.
Not only does it like give fans these crazy behind the scenes like experiences Helps charity helps the filmmakers, but also every single person who supports the cause Gets entered to win for this one It's entered to win a walk on role in my movie with a close up the VIP experience. We're gonna fly them out We're gonna put them up in luxury, you know They also can win the christmas tree and the garland and the wreath and the ornaments Oh my god, you see in the movie, you know, so it's it's called um, raise the real Okay, calm.
And then this, uh, so then we have running a campaign called my Christmas movie moment. And wow It's for a cell. I hope you're listening to this. You got it. You got it. You got to apply to be That's incredible. And how do [00:57:00] people do you make a donation and then you're your You're submitted into the contest.
Yeah. So well, they can buy it. They can buy their way in they can just oh, okay Gotcha straight up be like i'm coming to set generally gotcha. I'll see you there. I'm gonna have a hot chocolate Bar, i'm gonna give them the vip experience right rolling out the actual red carpet. I already bought a red carpet on amazon I'm gonna roll out Um, they get the autograph script they get everything that comes in the package.
That is. Oh, that's so fun Okay, also get entered to win Gotcha. Okay. If somebody buys the package where they can get a close up, which is a package, and then they win the grand prize that includes a close up. What they can do is they can get that to a friend. Got it. Got it. Plus one. That's brilliant. I love this.
Yeah, I really love it. And I love talking to you. It's like so fun and so easy. Yeah. Um, and I think Incidentally that you're going to be I mean you already are but producing like yeah, no, [00:58:00] no problem Like you're I see a big huge long career for you in that way in that regard. Yeah, I mean, come on Yeah, you got it all kid Listen, thank you so much for coming on today It's wonderful to talk to you.
Uh, let's leave the listeners with, um, maybe one or two pieces of advice. If they're interested, if they're thinking about fostering, fostering to adopt or fostering, and they're not sure they're on the fence, because that's a lot of my listeners, what would you say to them? Well, first of all, I would say you don't know what you're saying no to, so make sure you take an orientation class, but then I would also say like, sister, brother, take the cape off.
This is what one of my social workers said, like, we're not, nobody's asking you to be a superhero. You have been created on purpose and for a purpose for this exact moment in time And you have a special set of giftings that only you has And so you can just first before you take on the heavy load of opening [00:59:00] your home Look at practical ways that you can get involved now, you know, are you a hairdresser?
These girls, especially these teen girls in foster care. They've never had their hair cut. They've never had their hair done They don't get to go to the homecoming and prom dances looking pretty Is there a time at homecoming or prom especially where you can say, you know what from this hour to this hour at my salon?
I'm going to open it up for Girls or or boys if they need a haircut or you know, whatever they want to do Um, i'm just I have a heart for the girls But you know You Can you do their hair? Are you a mechanic? Do you change oil? Can you do free oil changes for like a foster parent because I will tell you being a foster parent, you know Rachel like it's hard.
Yeah, just to be acknowledged It's like what will keep you in the game, right? Just look at what you already have and then apply it to this world. I love that. What a great piece of advice. Thank you so much. Um, we're gonna say goodbye. You're gonna stick around for a minute and um, [01:00:00] thank you so much for coming on Thanks for having me.
All right. This has been the foster to forever podcast happy stories of non traditional families born through foster to adopt Produced by aquarius rising edited by jason sarubi at split rock studios original music composed by joe fulginetti For more information or to stay in touch, visit FromFosterToForever.
com. That's FromFosterTheNumberTwoForever. com. And stay connected with us on Instagram at FosterToForeverPodcast. That's FosterTheNumberTwoForeverPodcast. We'll see you next time.